I agree with the comment by 'Miles on Aug 23 2006'
Use a robot script to crawl these domains and click their links like mad. Yes, the kiters would initially profit from these ad clicks and potentially stick with the domains they have past the five day grace believing them to be genuine hits but actually they will stop when the domains have been purchased. This however is not the biggest bullet for this solution... Google will suffer massively and they will have to take action. Okay the kiters may be immoral businesses but the big fish behind this problem and the reason why people do it, is because of Google. Google needs to suffer and re-think it's terms and conditions when it comes to allowing where ads can be placed. Goggle is responsible for the millions of spam adsense sites out there and there not willing to do anything about it because it's holding up their ad network. This is the same company who publicly claim to be fighters of internet spam, the same company who's very foundations are based on providing relevant (spam free) search results. richard reeve (http://realitybomb.com) on Apr 17 2010, 08:53am Reply
I agree with you 100%
How can we have Democracy on the web? stop monopoly?
There's hope out there, http://Uoha.Com is Offering free websites and subdomains for small business people! Uoha.com I a very nice Business Social Networking website, Check it out!
I think this article should be published and repeated publicly until ICANN acts. Largely, I believe there is not enough public outcry because of ignorance. christopher (http://christophereaddy.com) on May 24 2008, 08:30am Reply
I think this practice is disgusting and even worse ICANN is aware of the problem but doing nothing about it.
One thing i can guarantee there is some money going from the kiters to ICANN or people who influence ICANN under the table.
Very corrupt system. ICANN might as well set up head offices in the middle of Central Africa. They'll feel right at home. Marko Jakovljevic on Sep 21 2007, 08:37am Reply
Hi Bob,
I did a few searches for a domain name over a period of two days. Shortly thereafter it was tasted by a Cybersquatter company before I was able to purchase it (Lesson learned - I should have purchased it immediately). I waited 5 days to see if they'd drop it and they did. To be safe, while waiting, I backordered the domain through GoDaddy (as I have two domains registered with your company). Sadly, the backorder didn't work and it was picked up by Melbourne IT. I stunned me until I realized I inadvertently backordered the domain name through their Names by Request service. Not too bright (I'm new to the world of domain "ownership". I didn't pay them any money. Nor did I agree to register the name with them. During the five day grace period, they contacted me via email and asked if I'd like to buy the name for $60 per year. I had already paid over $20 to backorder it with GoDaddy. I didn't want to pay an additional $60+. Plus, I prefer your company and didn't want to register it with their affiliate company Verio. Five days after Melbourne IT secured the domain for me, the GoDaddy monitor service alerted me that the organization name was changed to "INWW cancelled domains" and the name servers were changed to "adenine.melbourneit.com.au" and "enterprise.melbourneit.com.au." The status is "ok." And the expiry date is "2008-02-21." Also, there are no links on the domain webpage, only "The page cannot be displayed." It appears as if Melbourne IT, having not heard from me, placed the name on a cancellation queue. Is this correct? Does "INWW cancelled domains" imply that Melbourne IT will not be holding onto the domain until the expiry date, but rather will put it back into the pool of available names before then? And, if so, how long would it take in my case? I've read that 90 days is the amount of time for previously registered domains which are cancelled, but I am not the listed name holder. I don't think there is a listed name holder. I've never registered this domain before; it was merely backordered. Would the 90 day holding pool apply in this case? I'm not sure if I should contact Melbourne IT and try to buy it from them now or just wait. Can you, or someone in the know, please shed some light on this (I couldn't find anything on the net about this kind of specific situation) and instruct me regarding the best course action? Thank you.
This is so much wrong. There were so many domain name options that I wanted to register, but they were taken by this crap. Alex (http://www.special-dictionary.com) on Feb 19 2007, 09:09pm Reply
I would like to thank you for posting this information because I seen several of my domains that have been doing well in the search engines litteraly drop out. I believe this has something to do with the domain kiting that puts these other daomains in the search engines that outrank some other domains that have been established for a log time. Deek Ennis (http://www.ibuildstar.com) on Feb 13 2007, 11:18am Reply
Bob,
It should be coined "Domain Name Ransom" because:
In the market there are less Trade Marks issued than there are Domain Names because to register a TM (especially on a global basis) costs significantly more time and money than it does to register a domain name.
Behind every TM there is a legitimate intent or legitimate existence to protect a business.
If I am legitimate and I have an existing business then the highest protection afforded beyond a Business or Company name is the Trade Mark and hence the reasoning behind the WIPO rulings to hand back domains that infringe TMs.
The above is OK if I have an existing business... BUT.. if I locate or want to start a business with legitimate intent am I right in thinking that because some one paid $6 for a domain name they have in effect blocked a legitimate intended TM register and can hold me to "Domain Name Ransom" to pay 'After Market' prices before I can register the TM?
Regards,
Chris Hussey
PS:
My personal opinion is that a Moratorium of 6 months is held and that any and all domains that the do not have a legitimate business use beyond feeding links whether that be in the form of link-farming, domain squatting, domain kiting or are domains which have no site at all should be open to immediate removal by the register because they are in 'Bad Faith' and have the capacity to "Domain Name Ransom".
The effect and benefits of of removing 'Bad Faith' domains would be:
1. Lessen the work load on the 25,000+ cases already heard by the WIPO
2. Reduce the total cost to the legitimate intended user.
3. Decrease the strain on domain registers
4. Increase the relevance of search engines
The only exception to not enforcing handing back the "Bad Faith Domain" would be in the event that the domain owner can prove:
1. The true intent is to have such business (proved by registration of a business name, corporation or TM) and/or are or will be in the same industry class as that of the domain name and
2. That they are actively working towards a 'legitimate site' (the responsibility to check legitimacy of the site development is that of the registrar who could do so by limiting renewal to 6 months)
During and after this moratorium the domain registrar can only (re)register the domain if the intended (existing) user can prove that it is being (continues to be) acquired in Good Faith and has a legitimate business use.
Initial and post domain registration fees would of course rise to cover expenses but the total cost would decrease and total benefits increase as outlined above... making more transparent WWW. Chris Hussey on Jan 22 2007, 06:41pm Reply
Does it have to have a legitimate BUSINESS purpose? What does that do to the thousands of people like me who use the internet to express ourselves in moral and creative ways? My web site is all about trains and faith, and there's not a single BUSINESS reason that would justify it. But if it's taken away from me, then my only means of expression, and a lot of information I compiled to be valuable, simply disappears. I agree Bob's making a point about a deplorable practice. But making me provide a BUSINESS justification for my personal domain is also deplorable. Michael Heavener (http://www.heavenr.com) on Jan 20 2009, 12:33am Reply
OK. But nobody says, how does the kiter knows which domain purchase? Is there a leak in some part of the system?
We know of people that try to purchase a domain but it becomes registered before they type in their credit card numbers! alejandro lengua (http://alejandrolengua.info) on Dec 10 2006, 03:36pm Reply
I don't blame the companies that do this kiting, they just jump into a business opportunity. I blame Google. After all it is Google that makes this practice possible (they pay, and get paid even more).
Worse, they even promote it (see: http://www.google.com/domainpark/).
This weekend I checked where the paid clicks to my web shop where coming from (clicks that cost me almost $1 per click) and found that about 50% were coming from these kited sites.
(At that moment I already disabled the Google Search Network in the AdWords campaign settings, so Google considers these kind of sites even as content sites) In their reply, they admit that what they consider 'parked' sites, can be part of their content network (Where is the content I wonder?)
And if you think that this kiting practice is sick, I found an even sicker practice: Selling 404 pages to link companies.
There are hosting companies that use the 404 pages of live websites, that they host (of companies that are doing an honest business on the internet), and sell these 404 pages to link companies that are supported by Google.
This way you have a pretty defined business (of the main domain) and you can use that information to put sponsored ads of the competitors on the 404 page. I think this practice is really close to criminal.
This way everyone will make money out of the 404 page. Only the company that has the domain will see its traffic going to the competitors.
I contacted Google (it were Google ads) but according to Google it is all according to their policy. (I guess the Google policy is simple: as long as we make money and don't get arrested, we don't care)
As a Google AdWords advertiser I told them that this practice made me sick, and that I don't want to contribute to it.
They recommended me, if I still wanted to make use of there content network, that for each campaign, I just type in the domains where I don't want my ad to appear (Can someone help me type in 32 million domain names and that 4 times for the number of about 4 campaigns I run )
In the wikipedia it stated that a company that held about 100,000 domains was sold for 164 million dollars (that is $1,640 per domain name).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type-in_traffic. These were probably not kited domains, but it gives you an idea how much money Google is making by keeping this practice alive. It is probably a very substantial part of the total Google revenue; I lost already $25 of my $50 budget, this weekend to these link sites.
I know that it is easy to get rules to prevent this all, but unfortunately I am not in control of these rules. For me there is only one thing I can do to stop contributing to this practice and that is to turn off the 'content' network and the search network options in my AdWords campaign settings.
It is too bad that real content sites will suffer, but I would like to ask each AdWords advertiser to do the same.
The overlooked issue is the morality of kiting. The bottom line is takes a corrupt company to perform such acts.
The idea of the internet is to share information " world wide"
when you have companies stockpilng domains its end result is the destruction of the internet. You may laugh. But if Jim as an example wants to open Jims Electronics.com and its kited you have now shut down a reliable source multiply that 1000000 fold and the internet becomes a pile of useless garbage and a websites name would mean nothing.
I commend Bob, Parson for not joining the ranks of these domain thugs.
For those of you that might be trying to figure out how to get a domain away from one of the domain kiters, I have had some success in that area and I have compiled some instructions and information on the subject here:
Best of luck,
Robbie Robbie on Nov 11 2006, 03:51pm Reply
EASY SOLUTION:
I'm amazed sometimes at the morons who make it to high places.
Any business person with an investing 101 certificate could figure this solution out...
REQUIRE A DIRECT DEPOSIT into an interest money market account (Kiters pay their 'deposit' — no charge cards!)
MAIL THE REFUND "refunding" their deposit with a cut check via the U.S. Postal service. ("The check is in the mail"
Each day the money would gather interest... until the check cleared.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the kiters probably don't have the kind of cash required to make the direct deposit in the first place. Endgame.
Domain kiting would halt all together. Period.
Honest domain purchases would then have a chance.
End of discussion.
They really aren't too bright, are they?
I'll forward this thread to my Congressman — author of the "Can Spam Act"
[BETTER YET: require payment via cashier's check! The domain is 'locked' until payment is received. THEN it's released. After the 'grace' period, "refund" requests must be made individually, and refund check mailed back to the registrar.
Honest people don't mind fed-ex a check to pay for the domain. Most likely they won't be asking for a refund either. But the crooks simply won't be back. They'll wander off someplace and die.]
Of course, the industry did it to itself. They made the process too automated. You should NEVER be allowed to tie up more than one domain at a time — via a unique transaction. Period. What were they thinking about ??? Who hired those idiots? Fred Showker (http://www.user-groups.net/safenet/) on Sep 28 2006, 06:06am Reply
This is the first I'd heard of this trend and explains why I find these useless "links" websites all over the Internet. There is too much greed in the world and this is another example of how something set up to protect consumers is abused by the greedy. I'm all for taking away the 5-day grace period so that this sort of fraud cannot happen any more. Heidi on Sep 15 2006, 12:23am Reply
Excellent investigation and post, Bob. Thanks for trying to keep them honest.
I already have the engine/code that will hit a URL as many times as you like over a 24 hour period (once a minute or once and an hour). The engine looks like a browser hit and is indistinguishable from a real user (browser visit).
Feed it a list of URL's and it automatically starts monitoring URL's and sending out alerts/reports about there availability (if requested) so you know when there gone or down.
Extremely, robust, runs with no operators, architected to monitor millions of URL's simultaneously. Would definitely fix the problem.... generate site traffic and confuse the hell out of the "domain Kitters".
Fight back, expecting government to fix the problem is like watching paint dry - never happens when your looking.
Like your voice out there and your banned commercials !!
The kiters won't loose a cent if you run a robot on their sites. Possibly they will make even more money.
Every time someone clicks on a Google-link on the page they make money. They rely on income mainly from Google. Google gets it from advertisers. It is only when enough Google-links on each page are clicked that the kiters decide to actually buy the page. If you were to trick them into keeping the page through the use of a robot (simulating clicks), advertisers would still be paying for what your robot did, up to one dollar per "click". This would only hurt advertisers.
I wonder how much Google is involved in this? They do make a lot of money from the kiting phenomenon. That is a fact.
So, would can we do?
The only thing that will work is to remove the grace period of 5 days. Nobody ever asked for it. Apparently the ICANN board did not approve of this 5-day grace period and it seems that instead some staff member of ICANN inserted it into the legal contract used between ICANN and registrars without the ICANN board knowing of it.
Now, I would be really curious as to who that person is. That is who you should all be blaiming. Was he/she payed by someone to insert the paragraphs about grace periods?
As far as I know, ICANN is discussing right now how to prevent kiting and will probably do something about it eventually. I suspect they will simply remove the grace period since nobody really asked for it in the first place.
However, even if you get rid of the kiting problem, you still have the problem of millions of useless link pages that will still be there just because they generate more than $6 per year.
A few years ago the fee was $100 per year and domain-name. Maybe that is the level we need to get back to, to get rid of all these useless pages. It would hurt, but it would benefit the users of the internet. If someone pays $100 for a domain name each year then you know he probably has some serious intention with that page.
The refund should be only $5 for every $6 deposit. G W Myers on Aug 23 2006, 08:43am Reply
it is obviously a scam and to many people don't care. Wecome to the USA and it will go worldwide scam will be prefered to honest work and we all know where this will end. There would be simple rules to stop this restocking or cancelation fees, block the canceled domains for few months before making them available again, allow content not before the domain it permanent, not accept links from domains fewer than x months old, or just blacklist the skiters and do! IT IS NOT DIFICULT IT IS THE WILL TO STOP IT THAT IS MISSING! felix steinebrunner (http://www.worldsites-schweiz.ch) on Aug 11 2006, 01:27am Reply
Aren't advertisers losing out? These domain kiting scams rely on advertisers paying for pay-per-clicks ads.
How can advertisers better insure that there ads aren't a part of some scam like this?
I wouldn't blame the search engines that spider these sites, it's the window of opportunity the registrars are allowed that creates this scam.
Why aren't there measures in place at ICANN on performance?
If 60% or more of your domain name registrations are being canceled, isn't that a warning sign of poor performance and perhaps that registrars should be on some sort of punishment - like limiting the number of new registrations they can order?
A legitimate registrant would produce cancellation numbers that you've pointed out.
It's not good for the unknowing advertisers who's links are being used.
Even if they were GoogleAds, how is Google to handle this fraud if it's difficult for the users to report.
When I accidentally land on a page that's an Ad Link farm I usually leave, but some aren't so obvious because of content. I've come across this while searching for graphics or other content for webpages.
Yahoo, MSN and Google are actively doing all they can to prevent the many forms of abuse of their search engines, but this is clearly to me an abuse that ICANN is responsible for preventing. Monique on Aug 9 2006, 01:03pm Reply
There very likely is something that can be done about this. The 32.7MM domains needs to be published to a spam directory. How though is it possible to determine which domains fall into this bucket.
32.7 million number probably comes from ICANN on the number of domains under 5 days old, however this would also include new registrations and people who accidentally let their domain expire. This number has a lot of false positives; however that disgrunylement would go away soon.. it might be reasonable for a client browser to filter out any domains under 5 days old. Local Business (http://esold.com) on Jul 29 2006, 02:55am Reply
I just tried to purchase a domain for a nonprofit organization launching a campaign to deliver life-saving messages about teen dating violence. And I found all of our top selections are being hoarded by MDNH, Inc. for a selling price of at least $25K. All pleas to their go-between were dismissed due to privacy. Any tips? This just makes me irate given the subject at hand! Erica on Jul 20 2006, 03:36pm Reply
If you suspect your domain name has been kited, what can be done to attempt to recover it? Rick on Jul 10 2006, 05:33pm Reply
I don't really know enough about domain kiting to have too much of an opinion. I just figure why would one want to spend so much time registering and cancelling domains?
I would rather find other things to do with my time personally. There are so many legit ways to make money....why do it? Julie on Jul 3 2006, 09:42pm Reply
Why not beat them at their own game. These "kiters" seems to be registering expired domain names, as well as other. So let's start with the expired names, first we need a program "robot" that checks a list of recent expired names (i.e. abc123.com) against a whois and looks at the DNS and registrar info. When a match is made against a know kiter's DNS or registrar name the program then "http's" to the renewed domain (i.e. www.abc123.com) and looks for links. If links are found it simulates clicks, but not too many, just enough to make the "kiter" want to hold the domain.
Now, it would have to be a group effort becuase if the kiter sees a lot of hits coming from one IP they would simply block that IP. It would be best to enlist other computers on the net and have them emulate clicks, controlled by a main system to keep track of just how many hits they receive.
Of course the Kiter would make money the first week, but after that they would have a pretty useless domain on their hands and would have spend $6.00 for it. Assuming that 90+% of the domains they register makes them little or no money.
Of course this all relies on the Kiter not dropping a domain that makes money, but I guess they could just start dropping all of them every week and that would kill the idea of the robot program.
Also what is the amount it would take for a kiter to want to hold a domain? $.50, $1.00, $2.00, etc.
People, It's the same theory as mailing back the pre-paid junk mail envelopes you receive it the mail. Or keeping telemarketers on the phone as long as possable. The kiters would run out of funds at some point and have a lot of useless domains on their hand.
Ok, I gave you the idea. It's up to you to run with it, i'm too busy just trying to make a living. clickster on Jun 23 2006, 06:33pm Reply
Easy - start a "restocking fee". This could even be the exact amount it costs per day #days registered (ie for .com: $6/(1230) = roughly 2 cents/day. If it is a real mistake, they don't get stung too bad, otherwise they pay for the amount of time they have the domain.
Ideally you could couple this with a "waiting system" of people waiting to own the domain when it is released. Fishnu (http://www.poshram.com) on Jun 23 2006, 04:12am Reply
Hello, i'm just writing to inform you of my new website www.domain-kiting.com, after reading www.bobparson.com's blogs i set up this website as i'm tierd of typing domain after domain which has been registered and then i go to the website and there would be nothing on there apart form a search directory which has nothing to do with the website name. I'm sure millions of customers are missing out on some great domains, thats why i created this Website Forum. I just thought you would like to know of my service, please tell others of this and visit the forum and then maybe the authorities will take notice of this and how its affecting customers and put an end to it.
thanks, matt matthew (http://www.domain-kiting.com) on Jun 22 2006, 10:31am Reply
Stop domain abuse, indeed.
domain-kiting dot com and isasoftware dot com are now being kited. These domains were listed in comments here as being part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Bravo Matt, we have DomainKiting.com and maybe together we could just put a stop to this worldwide domain nightmare.
Thanks to Mr Parsons for all he does to make things fair for all of us. The fact that he posts our comments, website links etc is just an example of the good that GoDaddy and Bob does to help the future of the internet. Beth Ann Johnson (http://DomainKiting.com) on Jun 22 2006, 09:36pm Reply
Make ICANN an international entity and democratic rights for all countries to to pur forward, vote or oppose a proposal like this. Deepak (http://www.MegaLeecher.Net) on Jun 21 2006, 08:01pm Reply
Bob,
Great to see someone concerned about the domain industry!
In Australia we have tighter regulations which prevent registrars kiting.
The best solution I can see if the registrar has kited a domain more than once then the domain should be blocked from that registrar for registration.
It really ant-competitive behavour by registrars participating in kiting. Myles Agnew (http://www.mylesagnew.com) on Jun 21 2006, 05:35pm Reply
THIS IS SO SIMPLE TO SOLVE !
The five day rule is to allow for correction of errors. OK, so limit the number of errors that a registrar can get a refund for to 2% of its total registrations for the month. PROBLEM SOLVED!
Next, each registrar is only allowed to get a refund for an individual name, once every year. (This prevents the next logical step of groups of registrars passing the name from one to the other.)
Last step, after the domain registration is returned / canceled hold the domain in a publicly announced suspended state for a random period of time between 24 and 72 hours. Thereby letting everyone compete on the second registration. Thomas Taylor (http://TotalWebConcepts.com/dmainc.php) on Jun 20 2006, 07:01pm Reply
Although this comment may have been more appropriately directed to one of the major search engines it is relevant to this issue.
When a page is indexed by a search engine, an extensive algorithm is executed when additing its content to the index server. It wouldn't be difficult to calculate one or more statistics which indicated the probability of the page being part of a "kiting" syndicate.
Some example indicators which would be trivial to calculate could include:
- The number of pages under the domain (usually very low for a kited domain as the syndicate is only concerned with you clicking on the domain's main link, i.e. the domain name)
- The presence and number of adverts on the page possibly expressed as a ratio to the amount of normal content (kited domains would have a very high "advert to content" ratio).
- Reports from users and watchdog organisations.
- Domain record information (use of a-priori knowledge).
- Other heuristics.
These indicators could then be used by the search engine to order search results by relevance (sites with a high probability of "kiting" could be demoted) or, alternatively, the kiting probability of the domain could be displayed with the link, allowing the user to decide whether the result is worth clicking on.
Another alternative would be to build this functionality into a browser plugin which calculated the kiting statistics of your search results in the background. All very straightforward. Any investors interested in funding a project like that?
I've been a GoDaddy customer for close to a decade
and I have to say that you, Mr.Parsons and your
tenacity alone are reasons enough to continue to
do business with GoDaddy.Com.
Thank You for not letting go of these disreputable businesses,
for outstanding customer service and for not raising your
prices and resting on your laurels once GoDaddy blew up!
This is an abuse of power !
Stop Kiting! JGens (http://Impish.Net) on Jun 20 2006, 09:08am Reply
I have a domain that I have been using for over 2 years. I am now getting ready to go public, so I wanted to find the variants to the domain to be able to redirect. The 2 I need are parked and not being used.... What's the point?
? so called "search engines" are becoming no-more thieves ..they take snibits of your website and domain name but have no intention of listed your website on their directory. they direct yours to their website but then put your competitors to take the leads generated...what is the name of this practice? is it illegal? d mac (http://www.1800meter.com) on Jun 19 2006, 10:06pm Reply
I was just looking up a domain for a client and found it was owned by some outfit called domaindoorman.com. I check out the page and it's just a bunch of ads that bear no relation at all to the domain name.
So, I go to http://www.domaindoorman.com, which claims to be a icann accredited registrar and what do I find? There's no way to register a domain with them, no prices, nothing but a form for personal information which only a fool would fill out without any other info.
Please use your domain superpowers to send domaindoorman back into the dark void they escaped from.
set up a petition to the appropriate organizations/persons,
well written, which could be signed here online.
Any needed restrictions, such as ID or else, would apply.
Then when you have a bunch of signed supporters, you and we will win. Arthur Sherman (http://www.cpt.co.il/) on Jun 18 2006, 12:33pm Reply
It is fairly certain that directnic is tied to IN-Q-TEL
You know who in-q-tel is Bob
directnic monitors by IP - the have all sorts of porn sites that are you for psychological profiling. It's very extensive they then connect people and families etc...
On a side note can you please remove the g00ns again, they've been causing my all sorts of problems and ruining my online fun.
I'm sure glad that GoDaddy is upfront and would never do anything like what directnic does.
Right Bob?
have a day
jo maxx fred on Jun 18 2006, 09:12am Reply
Dear Bob,
Hey thank's for working for the little guy.If you get a chance in your busy schedule please check out my site www.hempschool.com A work in progress!If you have any ideas please email me. A loyal customer. Dell dell (http://www.hempschool.com) on Jun 17 2006, 05:22pm Reply
So that's what is going on. It seems like search is now virtually useless, because you get so many of these link sites. Search used to be useful! Neal Collier (http://www.flomatonantiqueauction.com) on Jun 17 2006, 11:57am Reply
That was very interesting, Mr. Parsons. I agree, iCann needs to act on this before it gets any worse than it already is. I reiterate the comments left here - Dr. Twomey - make Cambridge proud - put an end to this nonsense.
I found that domains of potential value may never go to auction at Pool.com. Instead they are kited in a new way.
The registrar in this case is Namescout. They put up a fake "partner" registrar at Abdomination.ca, a graphic-for-graphic copy of the Namescout site. Abdomination.com was registered as of last night to Pool.com
Abdomination.CA then became the registrar of record for kiting domains, two of which I know of that never came to auction.
Put plainly, it is using a kited domain to kite other domains while cherry picking from dropping urls by using the customer base of Pool.com to determine which domains are valuable.
If caught, Namescout has a nonexistent "affiliate" registrar to blame.
In case anyone is confused by the food chain, Pool.com is a sales branch of NameScoutcom, and Abdomination.Ca was registered to Pool.com
I complained to Pool, and reported them to RECOL.ca and Fraud.org, both of which have juristiction in Canada.
Apparently, they used my email address to look at my acccount and saw what urls I was speaking about (I refused to tell them). As of today, Abdominations.CA not only came down, but is now available for purchase. The only way this could have happened is if Namescout dumped the url to cover their tracks.
As of the time of writing, my correspondence is supposedly in Pool's legal department, I suspect more to deny or find ways to silence me than to correct their behavior. I am expecting the legalistic denial. I will post it as available.
Does anyone have anything to add to this, or have there been similar instances? John (http://toads.biz) on Jun 16 2006, 09:57am Reply
It's unfortunate that you chose an anti-semitic term to describe the disgusting practice of bulk domain name registrations/deregistrations. Bryan Knight (http://hypnosis.org) on Jun 16 2006, 08:15am Reply
It's "domain kiting", not "domain kiking". Mark S. on Sep 14 2006, 08:45am Reply
thanks for sharing this information - personally, it would be my feeling that every registrar should have to buy what they 'reserve' of basically, no 5 day returns! the little guy, like myself, we have to pay immediately and the return we get is to NOT renew the next year. i hate that they are taking over possession of so many names, it really stops little one or two domain shops from getting something that relates to their biz.. and they aren't on a level playing field with us! is there a reason that they can't just remove the 'return' policy? hope your comments reach the right ears. ryssa on Jun 15 2006, 07:08pm Reply
If a person believes that a site is being kited, is there a way to purchase that site as soon as the 5 day period is up.(before the person kiting it has a chance to claim it again) John H on Jun 15 2006, 04:38pm Reply
How does a person make money if someone lands on their bogus website domain name by chance?
Who is paying? IS someone willing to pay someone else for the bit of infpormation that I happen to land on their website? B A N (http://na) on Jun 14 2006, 07:14pm Reply
I never knew domain kiting was this large and bad on click fraud, hope this issue is solved shortly. Sprinko (www.sprinko.com) (http://www.sprinko.com) on Sep 4 2006, 06:53pm Reply
I fail to see how this perfectly legal practice of domain add/dropping is a bad thing.
1. Registrars make money from the deposit, and the short amount of interest in the deposit.
2. Domain owners make money from advertising clicks.
3. Advertising companies make money from the clicks.
4. Advertisers make money from increased customer exposure.
Everybody makes money in this situation. There's nothing wrong with it. I say more power to this system. Jason Fortuny on Jun 14 2006, 12:25pm Reply
Bob,
Since you are on the inside, what is the chain of communication when someone applies for a new domain name?
Some months ago I put in a request with one of my hosting services— 1and1.com— and paid for 5 new domain names that were available at the time according to whois.net queries.
I paid for the domain names and got back verification that the URLs were in process but were available to be registered in my name.
I was stunned to discover the next day that while 1and1.com was going through the motions that the unusual URL name I had "registered" was already in the whois.net database as having been registered within 6 hours of my own registration. My application and payment had preceded the new owner's by over 6 hours but this company had intercepted my registration and jumped on it themselves. (It was in the travel and tour industry).
1and1.com apologized and said they were "looking into changing" things about their registration service.
I have read NOTHING about this before except that I had learned from earlier experiences NOT to QUERY WHOIS.net about a name I was seriously interested in unless I was ready to REGISTER IT IMMEDIATELY. Because those queries had been intercepted.
But, I had not experienced having a registration "stolen" from me when I thought I was dealing with a "private channel" registration provider like 1and1.com.
Can you give us an insider's view of how a person's registration can actually be intercepted and registered out from under them? Who is seeing this process? Presumably it is automated. What is go.daddy doing that is different or protects people from such registration interceptions and usurption? David on Jun 14 2006, 09:17am Reply
Did you consider the posibility that 1and1 sold your domain? I think their excuse is very weak. Marcel van der Vliet (http://eazyworks.com) on Nov 13 2006, 08:14pm Reply
I have also been using whois.net to check a domain and then mysteriously it was registered a couple hours before I had the chance to.
I also feel that this is unfair and/or bogus because you would feel that whois registers should be protected and encripted in order to ensure that things such as this don't happen. The domain name is now being kited, I wonder what the chance of me being able to backorder it will be seeing how I've already seen it go through two seperate companies... It's now stuck with wangleedomains, another what I would assume domain kiter that has an inside knowledge (or can read minds), on what other domains people are looking for. JB (http://www.ubloop.com) on Aug 4 2006, 03:03pm Reply
You know what would put the screws to this practice? Make the names of all of these public in a list (I've got a domain name in mind already) and then they'll gradually be swiped away from them when they are dropped before they can be picked up again. If not swiped at least there'd be a list of the domains involved. I'm sure a ton of those fake porn sites with nothing but links to other domains with links are involved.
Seriously Dr. Twomey and ICANN are about worthless and personally I wouldn't be surprised if they were in on the profits being made by this scheme.
When there are blatant abuses like this maybe a lawsuit against ICANN and it's officers should be in order to wake them up? Did you hear (read) that good Dr? RCM on Jun 13 2006, 05:30pm Reply
if google and yahoo stopped listing these bogus sites there would be no kiting because these domains wouldn't get any traffic.
i keep seeing legit sites get trumped over and over again by keyword/doorway sites, even though these types of sites violate google's rules.
the web is getting to be an unsafe place to surf for the unskilled surfer. i think we'll see more "trusted" portals coming to popularity in the coming years - places you can't get redirected or accidentally download spyware.
the government is worried about porn, but these doorway sites are much worse. when was the last time a porn site spread a virus? they are much more interested in making money.
If you check the fastest growing registrars in webhosting.info you'll b able to see most of the registrars involved in domain kitting.
it's all 100% legal, they use domains and then release them after 5-7 days or so and then get them back. It's like using a dress and them returning it to the shop.
Thank you for this very interesting article. I want to extend the debate to this very subject. Registrars that have undercover websites selling domain names for outrageous price. They say they own the domain but they really don't and if you are interested, they pretend they have a huge demand for this particular domain name and that the price is now set around $8000.00 or more. If you are patient, the price will drop at $6000.00 two weeks after....What could we do to obtain a free domain name hijacked by these Kitters? Please help, thank you. Phil Rion on Jun 12 2006, 06:58pm Reply
Why can't domain name registers just limit the amount of re-newal?
For instance, I register a name. Dump it. This is logged.
I do it again. Logged. Third time, I am no longer able to register. How hard is that? You don't need a governing body to do that do you? Doug on Jun 12 2006, 12:24pm Reply
Bob, I have an idea how You can fix this without waiting for ICANN. Have one of your developers write something that looks like a visitor to these kited sites. Then the kiters will think they have found a web address that generates enough revenue trajectory to justify registering the name permanently. Then abruptly stop the traffic once the registration is permanent. At best, the kiters will go broke registering zero-traffic names. At least the advertizers will stop paying because of the high rate of click fraud. Either way, it will put the kiters at risk.
Re ICANN:
Give 'em Hell, Bob!
Ever think about running for President? lary priestman (http://yarlq.com) on Jun 12 2006, 08:57am Reply
Follow the money... Most of these "kiting" sites are abusing Google. A lot of them are also committing click fraud. They setup the site, and then pay people in China in click on those ads. That is how they make money. They are defrauding people of it. That should be illegal. If companies like Google would prevent that flow of money it would drop this dramatically. For instance... Google should not allow adwords or click throughs on site that are not registered permanently. What is the point? They are obviously not serious, so don't allow it!
We have started using the age of the domain in our spam filtration. Over 1.5 million domains in May were "temp" domains from spammers. That is crazy. They send out millions of spams to the site, and then tear it down at the end of the 5 days. Jason Short (http://www.emeraldspamshield.com) on Jun 11 2006, 09:45pm Reply
How do we contact ICANN to tell them we want this practice stopped?
One particular person has done this to my friend's domain name and he is using her reputation for saving animals to make himself money. We need to stop him and others like him! Julia (http://www.craftelady.com) on Jun 11 2006, 11:40am Reply
Bob,
I've seen this happening myself, and wonder why it is allowed. I noticed this happening around a year or so ago. I don't understand why ICANN won't step in. They are taking advantage of the registries that are allowing the registrars valid deletes if they accidentally correct the wrong names. What can the registry do? Take the grace period away? No. So what can we do to battle this? If ICANN won't do anything about it, we need to do something ourselves to bring this to a hault. But what how can we convince ICANN to outlaw this practice? Also, clever naming on the term, Bob.
Steve. Steve Anonymous on Jun 11 2006, 08:47am Reply
Hi Bob,
Thanks for this post... damn can't beleive with all the backtalk on fair world trade practices and human rights issues from the USA Government, that the senators and others in charge of this issue can sit back and let corruption like this to exist (I understand ICANN is basically USA fully controlled when say this!! Sends out a message to the world that if it is USA based then is fine to rip everyone off - almost like ICANN are just a bunch of mafair bosses helping these guys generate free cash for blocking fair world trade.
Agree with the comments of others - they should bring in a system - if a name is registered and not paid (penalty of US$1) and if repeatedly registered and never paid by same party then automatic payment is taken x 3 times normal cost - no refund.
Is there not a standard petition letter we can be sending to senators and ICANN in bulk on this so they can see there are a lot of angry net users out there - perhaps even a check box link on your own site that, when people add / renew or change a name an auto letter to them all in power to change this goes out petitioning a change - possible?
Thanks again - this has to stop or how can ICANN or the USA expect support on any fair trade issues world-wide!!!
Shocked, annoyed and extreamly sad the USA Government allows this thug type behavor to exist! andrew on Jun 11 2006, 12:39am Reply
This is a rediculous practise. The way to stop it would simply be to discontinue the 5 day refund policy. Why? Because i don't know of a single domain registrar who offers this refund policy to its customers. If they don't offer it to their customers, then there's basically no need to offer it to the registrars either.
In addition to the malicious practise, i also found a new (?) scheme regarding the .eu TLD. Since a few days, Eurid started to release .EU names that were pre-registered during the sunrise period, but were not granted to people. Eurid was so "helpful" as to add the release date to the whois entry.
Now what happens is that certain .eu accredited registrars seem to have received a list of the domains and their release date, and registered those names almost the second their were release (after 11am on release date). This applies mostly to those registrars who were also doing "business" in the scheme that was discussed by another entry on this blog (hijjacking the .eu TLD). I had a list of names i wanted, including my own surname (there are not many people with my surname), and they were all gone. Why would some registrar (or in the case of my surname, the cofounder of a registrar) want my surname???
This practise of scamming needs to be stopped. Sooner rather than later. Jeroen Wierda on Jun 10 2006, 08:24pm Reply
I went to my favorite website to buy doamin names - godaddy.com, and was trying to purchase a .com domain name. Well the credit card authorization failed because the card was not activated. No problem, So I fixed the CC problem and tried to get the domain name the next day.
When I was about to buy it from godaddy it said it had already been taken. So I did a whois and saw it had been purchased by Compana, Inc. (another domain name registrar), that same day.
So I did some research on them and found out that they monitor domain registry querries and selectively buy domain names that have some significance and relevence in search engine keyword rankings. This of course is an automated process.
My question is how is it possible for a business such as Compana, Inc. able to monitor what domain names are being querried?
And, Do you have to be a registrar to do that?
Is there any link to a website that can explain this? Ray Solomon (http://www.ray-solomon.com) on Jun 9 2006, 10:27pm Reply
I would suspect the reason a registrar would play along is they make a fair amount of money on the "float", ie they have the $600K, which generates interest they do not need to return to the kiters.
Costco does this - they have 90 days (roughly) between ordering an item and paying for it. If they can sell the item in 10 days from purchase, they have 80 days (90-10) of interest on the money they will send to the vendor to pay for the item.
What they (Costco) is doing is legal, and fairly clever. Considering the cash flow, they are smart to do so, make a profit, and still provide a good set of product at a good price.
However, the registrars that the kiters are using are unethical at best, and aiding and abetting at worst.
Kick them in the ass, Bob, whenever possible. Good for you.
(I would say "You go, Girl", but I fear you might just kick ME in the ass :^)
As always, you continue to serve the millions of Internet users by issuing this formal challenge to the organization(s) that are willing to permit such clearly unethical behaviors to occur.
Maintaining the integrity of a domain name is serious stuff and ICANN fluffing it off to the side under the flag of "business is business; everyone is allowed to make as much profit as they can generate" can not be permitted to continue. I have always viewed many of the deceitful acts occuring on the internet (including spam) to be a clear case of false advertising, but if that doesn't apply here (as I think it should) has anyone considered the "Next Day Dress Return" practice in which a person purchases an expensive item (such as a piece of clothing or jewelry), wears it to the event they purchased it for and then returning it the next day? Doesn't this example provide a proper parallel to argue all members of the Internet community are not permitted to "try on" the same web site address repeatedly? You buy an address and have 5 days to take ownership of such an address for a test drive. If after 5 days, you don't like the site, sure...return it. But doing it 5, 10 or 20 times?
I am no legal eagle but maybe my example might lead to someone having another idea on how to shape Internet policy?
Once again, kudos to you and every single member of your organization for your excellence in both customer care...and community caring! YOU GUYS ROCK!
This domain kiting is ridiculous. Whenever I look for a good domain for a client, it seems to be taken by some useless shell of a company. This is WRONG!
Are the folks "upstairs" getting some kick-backs to keep allowing what should be illegal?? Sick and tired on Jun 8 2006, 08:20am Reply
I am seeking a way that allows companies or individuals to be able to seek civil damages against indivuals responsible for kiting. Since domains are many times protected under trademark laws, this may be a legal loophole for us to take action. I suggest that this starts on the level of GoDaddy.com. This is only, because GoDaddy.com is better established and can make this issue carry more steam. Eventually, with enough attention, Congress will be forced to take action. Afterall, they are only moved by the media's word-of-mouth. Furthermore, it will speak for the quality and strength that every company needs to prosper and do well in today's market.
Perhaps a new blog set up as a petitiion would help. This blog should be based on the idea of listing financial losses as a result of registrars not their customers. There are laws, but you have to know how to manipulate them to help them protect you. For my plan to work, this would be the first step. Afterall, any legal issue addressed in Congress has got to either be class action or in the millions.
I will look for repnses. We are the tip of the iceberg. Now you and I have to make this iceberg sink the Titanic (domain kiting acheme). John D. on Jun 8 2006, 05:00am Reply
Thousands of EU Domains were released yesterday. Unfortunately several consumers were not able to have access to these because organizations like pool.com picked up thousands of names.
Of course they are a Canadian company so should not have been able to buy EU domains.
Instead the established a shelf company and used a fake reistrar name and somebody elses telephone number. Joey on Jun 7 2006, 11:01pm Reply
Hi Bob Parsons
I wanted to thank you for the article on "Domain Kiting". I have never heard of any such practice. I thought every name I had come up with was taken. This made me believe that I was too late for every name that I had chosen. But now I realize why they were all taken.
I believe the reason VERISIGN and ICANN are turning their heads is because they are putting large profits in their pockets from these types of practices. Let us know if there is something the little guys like us can do to help put a stop to this form of robbery.
Concerned entrepreneur
Sharon Juhasz Sharon Juhasz on Jun 7 2006, 10:05pm Reply
It's very obvious that kiting needs to be stopped, but I'm interested: what about domain parking?
This is when companies suck up lucrative domain names, for the sole purpose of selling them at a HUMONGOUS profit. This happened to a popular domain that had a site that I used to visit; the owner didn't renew his site, and within days, someone else bought the name. For giggles, I checked their site (http://www.sedoparking.com), and the result was simply "Make offer"; with 1,200 unique viewers to this particular site per month - three years after closing - I expect the price to be substantial, considering the lower ones I saw were in the hundreds (courts.com = $675,000).
Considering the price to register a legitimate domain name, I consider this to be dirty marketing at some of it's worst. If I were to want a domain name for whatever reason - be it hobby or small business - that was parked, I'd likely have to spend so much money it wouldn't be worthy it; I'd be better off sticking to Angelfire. Christopher Bowen (http://www.superbusnet.com) on Jun 7 2006, 02:49pm Reply
I have purchased several domain names, some I wanted to get rid of and others I checked to automatically renew. Somehow, two that I wanted to automatically renew, (that I had checked and not touched) at different times didn't renew. This all happened while I was traveling only to find my names...all versions of my own name that I know no one else has...were swiped faster than I could blink. I tried to save them but was too late...why would someone want my names that bad? I feel like there's something really fishy and it might be related to this. Whoever it was backordered all my sites and have a generic park page and privacy guard. Who knows...all search engines are pointing to fictious sites instead of my own. It would be one thing if I had a website for my friends to see, but I run my business through those domain names. Is there anything that can be done? I wish there was some kind of recourse. C Ashman on Jun 5 2006, 06:44pm Reply
keep on keeping on bob, anything i can do, let me know - if i had money - anyway, you ever need looking after.......07916347864 i mean it richard s turner on Jun 5 2006, 05:21pm Reply
Bob
It is a strong attribute to point out this abuse. I thought the 5 day lookback was designed for consumers who change their mind or indended to register a different name i.e. google.com instead of poodle.com.
I hate when I know a good name to make a productive website, find out it is taken, and then when I go to the domain it is just a search page trying to make money from people clicking on it.
It doesn't give anything back to the web at all. I have very useful opensource site ideas that I am limited with because the domain names I need to generate money for my programming time or eaten up by what you have talked about in the article, domain kiting.
Glad someone cares about it, thanks for pointing that out. Ben Taylor (http://mcatquiz.com) on Jun 4 2006, 10:56pm Reply
It is incredibly annoying when, instead of using something like the domain system for authentic business promotion purposes (i.e. registering a domain to promote a business related to that domain), get-rich-quick types figure out ways to hack the system to make money without actually doing anything useful. And when they do that, they clog up the system and make things difficult for everybody else. There have been many times when I've searched a domain name that I wanted to use for a legitimate business purpose only to find that it was tied up by someone who wasn't using it for anything, and MANY of those landed me on one of those search sites Bob mentioned.
There really should be something put in place that prevents people from tying up domain names in this way, for this reason. It's the same old story, isn't it? Get-rich-quick people use money to make money without adding any value to society, while at the same time making things harder for everybody else. It's like people who write viruses or hire others to do so, and then sell anti-virus software. Some people really believe this is what capitalism and free market economics is and should be all about, i.e. anything goes to play the money game. sigh That's really too bad. Thanks, Bob, for the information. Jim on Jun 4 2006, 06:44pm Reply
Dear Bob:
Once again, you have hit the nail on the head. The domain name industry needs more honest and intelligent people like you.
Please keep on exposing these important situations so we can know what is going on.
Thanks. Chaplain Estes (http://bridgetofaith.com) on Jun 4 2006, 09:15am Reply
As the originator to the web site, bigdiglifevest.com, when I chose this site to express concerns that roadway construction be the best for the hugh amounts of monies spent to redo Boston and its inner-city roadways which has now become apparent as the work done has certainly proven the highway marvel of moving traffic so freely throughout the city, I paid for my web site.
There is no room for kiting or for compromise in any way on our global internet and its integrity must be preserved and all are responsible to assure that no one compromises our highway of communications just as numerous activists called for integrity in reshaping and rebuilding Boston which all are proud of today. Stop this revenue seeking solution which compromises the future of a vehicle which has become so integral to our daily communications. Christopher Tingus (http://bigdiglifevest.com) on Jun 4 2006, 06:07am Reply
I've been in the internet security and hosting business since the mid 90's. This is and has been a serious security risk.In addition to what Bob has mentioned; "kiting" domains also has and is still being used to hijack IP space. Many major corporations are using their ties to companies like Verisign and Directnick to broker deals with IP hijacking experts. These hijackers have been using holes in ARIN and other major international IP registrars IP registration process to hijack IP space for a long time. Hijackers often use domains acquired via kiting or other methods to obtain ip space that usually was once an asset of a company their sponsoring company aquired that was NOT supposed to have been transfered to that corporate entity. IP space is not a transferable asset so it is something that should be returned to the IP pool when a company is bought out or goes out of business. Since this has not happened as often as it should it has compounded the shortage of IP space and made any IP's not being used a very valuable commodity. Since the domain itself that most of these hijackers use has been "kited" transferring it over to the sponsoring entity helps expedite the process. Hijackers prefer using kited domains for this purpose because it usually shields the hijacker themselves from any sort of legal actions and is easily transferable to the corporate entity sponsoring the deal. The fact this method called kiting is often used to help hijack IPs -in addition to other threats I will soon mention- makes it an extremely serious burden and security risk to the internet. Also sadly now alot of these domains are used to create sites that being used as spyware portal install gateways. Most of them designed to use the latest rootkits to avoid detection and do nothing more than install malware - and can even on most corporate filtered computers. The primary drive behind this practice of distributing malware and spyware is companies (many of them major banking and credit card subsidiaries) that pay between $5 and $30 per install. As I said much of this malware is shielded from detection by most if not all anti viurs solutions -by windows rootkits. This is a huge mounting threat to all Internet users. A matter compounded by the growing threat to consumer privacy this scenario poses. In my opinion because of the nature of many of these websites being malicious it makes this a matter of international security issue. Since the US department of commerce and the federal government have more say than they like to admit in ICANN and especially IANA it is within congress's power to actually do something about this. Granted a petition of this nature may be the last straw needed to free ICANN from the control of the US government itself in order to avoid obeying such legal action. But at that point the international court can be used to force ICANN's hand so to speak. Eitherway something must be done to stop Kiting. Lords Syndicate (http://www.mainlineisp.net) on Jun 3 2006, 08:39pm Reply
There's always a good reason why things happen. In this case, I'd expect a 'follow the money' plan would lead from the scoundrels to the decision-makers. Why else would it be ignored?
The only explanation is that the people in charge of the decision have a vested interest in the status quo. Chuck on Jun 3 2006, 07:42pm Reply
I went on one of those domain names registration sites to check if some domain names were free. So I typed all of them for verifcation. It was during the week end and I thought that I will buy them on Monday. Guess what! On Monday, all of them were taken ! The internet is the largest avenue on earth with over 5 Billions sites, imagine that ! almost a store per person. Most of them selling crap, very few legitimate will survive. Now I deal exclusively with Godaddy. Why settle for less when you can have the best. By the way, Godaddy does not need me to be successful so this is reality not a paid endorsement.
People love to make millions of dollars without doing much physical labor. ICANN became one of those sectors. If you had such good fortune, you'd allow nothing to stop the money from flowing in. Their mediators are as phony as the day is long. Totally corrupt. DID YOU KNOW For a $1,500 complaint they'll throw people out of their domain. Barbara Fischer (http://www.jmcutlery.com) on Jun 3 2006, 01:36pm Reply
There's one thing I don't understand. Who pays the money to these domain kiters when somebody clicks on one of their sites? How is this payment made? The money must come from somebody's bank account and it would be very informative to learn who is being ripped off. Ram Jagessar on Jun 3 2006, 08:36am Reply
I just read all 4 pages and I didn't see anyone make this point: Why are these people allowed special privileges that the rest of us are not? When I register a domain, I have to pay for it. There should be no refunds after 24 hours and if so, there should be a restocking fee. I realize there is a need for canceling a domain (credit card fraud is what I see) but in all cases, the fraud is discovered within 24-48 hours.
As to ICANN earning money off this practice, that's ridiculous. If kiting was removed, then the domains would have to be purchased. Mathematically they make more money with the sale than with the deposit. A $600K deposit is equal to 100,000 domains. I realize not all 32million would be registered, but I'm sure more than 100,000 per registrar would be. Furthermore, they would probably be bought by people who actually put them to use, at least putting relevant ads on the page, or of course putting up full websites.
The situation is so egregious that the reason it's allowed to stand is obvious: the people making the rules are in some way participating in the scheme. (Al Copone supported prohibition.) So the real solution is to remove those people in charge. Use this issue as the rallying cry to remove the people running ICANN. It's funny how people can find their moral compass when their job is being threatened. Are they elected? Maybe they should be. Appointed? By whom? Everyone has to answer to someone. Maybe they should be subjected to congressional review like cabinet posts or judges.
Nothing like shaking a smelly fish under their nose to make them let go of the cookie.
Well, Bob, at least we have the WHOIS system to get the names and addresses of those ultimately responsible for this kiting; though some or all of the WHOIS information being submitted by these kiting registrars may be fictitious. Regardless, I hope you are keeping a comprehensive record of all those individuals that could possibly be involved, as it may prove useful in possible future litigation.
I am very confident that ICANN will do something about it if they get enough letters from enough important people. The letter from the Public Interest Registry is a good start.
The fact that ICANN is turning their backs to this whole thing is quite shocking. It's definitely fodder for your average conspiracy-theorist, to wit: "Hey man, I bet you the top brass at ICANN are doing the kiting themselves just for the extra money on the side. Who watches the watchers?"
The best solution I can think of is to make domain name registrations NON-REFUNDABLE, period. It seems a little draconian, but then ask yourself, "Does the U.S. Patent Office allow refunds for an inventor that would like to withdraw or void his newly patented device?" Maybe they do, I'll have to research that, but my intuition would say "no" to that question.
Anyway, best of luck with all this. Tonight was the first time I've heard of such a concept as domain-kiting. This unstoppable juggernaut we call the Internet gives birth daily to new concepts and ideas that only exist because the Internet exists. Tyson on Jun 3 2006, 03:20am Reply
"I am very confident that ICANN will do something about it if they get enough letters from enough important people. The letter from the Public Interest Registry is a good start.
The fact that ICANN is turning their backs to this whole thing is quite shocking. It's definitely fodder for your average conspiracy-theorist, to wit: "Hey man, I bet you the top brass at ICANN are doing the kiting themselves just for the extra money on the side. Who watches the watchers?"
Take it from someone that has been participating in the general assembly, the dnso, and now the gnso, it is not shocking at all that ICANN isn't doing anything about something that matters to indicidual users and small businesses. It is their normal mode of doing things, or not doing things as the case is here.
The guy that sold business.com is now in the domain name monetizing business and has investors with deep pockets. They are big players. I don't know if they are kiting but I would bet that some companies with deep posckets are behind most of it.
Well, we all like the free market and capitalism don't we? we live the life of Riley don't we, compared to the wee small chap in some ghastly 3rd world country.
Make money any which way you can as long as someone else isn't smarter and making more than you - is that it?
Good luck to them, and to you if you can find a way to do it. That's what we're all taught now isn't it? if it makes money it's OK and go for it.
Now what about the kids in the mud hut watching their mother die of AIDS because the multi-national-global-corporation-whatnot won't license their drugs for the cheap generic producers?
Now that is what I call a REAL low-life scum-sucking SCAM which REALLY HURTS people!! R. Alexander on Jun 2 2006, 06:03pm Reply
YOURE COMMENT IS VERY MOVING AND HONEST. ITS THINKING LIKE THAT, THAT WILL EVENTUALLY SHOW PEOPLE THAT THE HUMAN RACE ISNT AS HUMANE AS WE PORTRAY AND THAT SOCIETY IS RAPIDLY BECOMING OVERTAKING WITH THE LOVE OF MONEY,AND THE DESIRE TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO OBTAIN IT. AS TIME PROGRESS THIS DOG-EAT-DOG MENTALITY WILL CONTINUE TO RUN RAMPANT AND DO MORE DAMAGE THAN WE COULD EVER BELEIVE THANKS FOR YOURE COMMENT I HOPE MORE PEOPLE WILL BECOME ENLIGHT MATTHEW on Jun 18 2006, 01:45pm Reply
Just one comment....if you want the domain, you pay for the domain. In the netherlands we dont have that 5 days rule of refunding.
I never heard of kiting either. But the lack of domain names makes a little more sense now. Could they be offering these domain names for sale and only purchasing the ones that sell within the five day grace period? If they don't sell in five days, it's no loss to them. If they sell for $25, it's a nice profit if they only sell a small percentage of the names. Anything not sold goes back into the pool for a few more tries. Sounds to me like the problem would be solved by eliminating any grace period at all. Change the laws, the rules, whatever, but kiting is BS and does need to be stopped. James G. (http://www.basskicker.com) on Jun 1 2006, 07:07pm Reply
Bob,
If this practice is legal why not start kiting domains on behalf of godaddy customers? Just have a this domain is for sale on there and let the first person who wants to buy it pay the $8.95 or whatever it is. Richard (http://www.usmlmleads.com) on Jun 1 2006, 02:28pm Reply
It is a crazy world we live in... why do people stretch so hard to do the wrong thing when that same energy and creativity applied to creating something of value could render so many more dollars and a clear conscience.
Thanks for the heads up, Bob. We'll quote you within our episode about all the black hats out there in the WWW, still a wild, wild, web!
I'm very sorry this is off topic but I didn't know how else to direct your attention to HUGE problem in a semi-public setting.
The "Cope Act" (Communications Opportunity, Promotion and Enhancement Act of 2006) is going to kill the net as we know it and all the domain talk will be mute point. IMHO
Please everyone Google this subject and act accordingly especially you Sir, Mr. Parsons.
The net community needs to make our voice heard!!!!
Once again Sir, I apologize for the hijacking of your blog.
Thanks
Edward,
Nolaimports.com/ Proudly hosted on godaddy!!!!! Edward (http://www.nolaimports.com) on Jun 1 2006, 03:59am Reply
Hi Bob,
This topic reminds me of the time I was bored out of my mind at work and I just surfed porn for 12 hours. Thank god for internet porn.
Please correct my math, 32 million domains at $6 apiece represents a STAGGERING $192,000,000.00!
If they only hold it four of every five days, that's roughly $153,600,000.00 for a (30 days) daily balance.
If I could make one half of one percent of that in interest, I'd be begging people to kite domains via my registry. Absolutely begging. No wnder VeriSign has nothing to say... jdp (http://reliablyhosted.com/) on Jun 11 2006, 01:21am Reply
Another possible (ab)use of this process, which seems to have been overlooked, is that it could be useful for spammers. A mega-million email spew only needs to have a link active for a day or two. Setting the page as a simple redirect to the "payload" site instead of the aforementioned ad page earns the spammer as much, if not more "click-money." The link only has to work for a few days.
As the abuse admin for a smallish ISP, I've often wondered about the dead links in spam emails when I haven't cleaned out the spamtraps for a week or more.
Is the 5 day refund something registrars have to offer by law, or is it just standard for the industry?
How about changing the terms, in a way that would be visible for those registering domains manually, but would be missed by an automated kiting engine. For example a change from 5 days to 4.
Suddenly the kiters would have spent their deposit.
Do they re-registrer at the same registrar, or do they cycle through different registrars to avoid detection of this fraud?
Since it is in the registrar's own best interest to get rid of the kiters, the registrar should be able to refuse their business.
Or each registrar could take unilateral action by holding on to canceled domain for some period of time. After all, what can the kiters do: complain? It would be interesting to hear the customer service call when the scammer complains that the gig is up.
Also, is it not free enterprise? Doesn't that also mean that a registrar should be able to refuse to do business with a known kiter. Is that what godaddy is doing? You state that godaddy is not involved in this, which I preume to mean that you don't allow kiting by your customers, or does it mean that godaddy itself doesn't kite?
Interesting article. I would not want to do away with the five day refund, but I could certainly go for a 90 day delay on refund. That way, in your exampl of putting up $600,000.00 they would be reduced to being able to kite only 5,555 or so domain names instead of 100,000 OR they would have to put up about $9.6 million to maintain the same number of domains. Of course, restricting the ability to reregister could be a deterant as well, but could easily be defeated by having more than one account.
Of course, both of these options also harm legitimate registrars as well, but if they tie it to the percentage of domains refunded, then those that are legitimate would not be subject to the restrictions. And, the refund delay could be passed on to the customer in that it could be a policy where legitimate registrars also delay the refund for a cancellation if they even offer the option. I do not recall ever seeing where I could cancel a registration, but then I never had a need to cancel one.
But there's an even more lucrative method to this 'domain kiting' scheme that some registrars are using... that of providing these domains to spammers, and charging the spammers for their usage.
Watch the domains that Alex Polyakov (the world's largest spammer, according to Spamhaus.org) is using. You'll see them 'lose' their name servers and stop functioning... coincidentally enough, on a regular basis of approximately 4 days. Then, just when the anti-spammers think the domains are dead... they're back in operation.
So, this whole 'domain kiting' scheme is not only immoral and dishonest... it's being used in support of organized criminal enterprise. SpamSlayer on May 31 2006, 12:27am Reply
The problem is a form of spamming and is easily solved if the search engines get involved — and they have good reason to. These domain kiting "mini sites" pollute search results and infuriate the users (customers) of search engines.
It's in Google's (et al) best interest to identify these rapidly re-registered domains and simply omit them from their databases (32+ million sites to omit is a nice bit of housecleaning). The better the results, the more likely the customer will keep using that search engine.
Bob would know best that there must be a way to mine WHOIS for recent registrations and track these offenders. If the domain kiters, now actively hidden from the vehicles that get them traffic, would have to find some other way to abuse the Internet to make money. Psyclops on May 30 2006, 09:39pm Reply
The search engine pollution is getting severe. This is a larger problem to those of us on the outside of this discussion. Very good point. Chris Hart on Jun 16 2006, 07:17pm Reply
Yes, if Google, Yahoo, Lycos, etc... ALL had a policy to not list ANY sites registered less than 5 days, this might all go away. Bob, what about pushing this solution in that direction? Would they participate? It would definitely seem to be in their best interest to, as these sites are NOT where the search engines want to be pointing.
That doesn't solve the problem at all. As Anthony says, he just recovered a domain from the kiters. If he had a legit website and Google banned it due to kiting, then he would be screwed because Google is terrible at bringing sites identified as spam back into the index. It could take weeks or months. Also, it doesn't solve the problems of other people wanting to legitimately register domains. There is also plenty of money to be made from type in traffic and links to dead sites. Google (and other search engines, like Dumbfind! www.dumbfind.com) is just one source of traffic.
The solution is to simply not have a return policy. It's $6. Buyer beware. Not a big deal unless you are buying an enormous amount of domains. If you are, then you just better make damn sure you are buying the right ones.
Bob is mad because this takes away his business because people can't register the domains they want to because these kiters have them all. And he's right to be so. dumbfounder (http://www.dumbfind.com) on Jun 11 2006, 04:19pm Reply
The Domain business has gone to sleep! Tell us when something wakes it up. Richart B. Whitte on May 30 2006, 04:48pm Reply
Hi bob, very interesting article. Kiting is legal, just like SPAM. But it doesn't mean it should be accepted by us.
The most obvious solution is to charge a small, U$ 1 for instance, fine for these cancellations such that the fine outgrows the potential profit.
Nobody can generate traffic in 5 days anyway, so the fine would solve it.
Thanks for the heads up. Jose Fonseca on May 30 2006, 11:18am Reply
Bob,
Thanks so much for spearheading this effort! One of the most frustrating things about being in the online business
is constantly running into registered domain names that have nothing more than search engine links -domain names that I would have otherwise used legitimately.
Somehow this scame doesn't surprise me one bit. It seems like all these "quick money" astists (if you can call them artists) have is one and only one motto ......
It's all about the money!!!
And they don't care about anything else nor do they have the slightest shred of integrity. Nothing but slugs. JD Wiggs (http://www.jdwiggs.us) on May 28 2006, 08:15pm Reply
Great article! There's actually been a few domains that I've wished to register that were being kited. Kiting should be illegal! Thanks Mr. Parsons for the article. SHawn on May 28 2006, 06:58pm Reply
With so many names taken out of the pool, this would have to affect other registrars ability to legitimately register domain names and earn an honest living.
Rob-e (http://www.bigbike,biz) on May 28 2006, 06:52pm Reply
Keep fighting for us little guys Bob! Mischevious practices such as these further make the internet a growingly difficult place to conduct honest business and many people don't do anything about it until it affects them. I have seen domain names I genuinely want fall into this scheme and it is annoying that there is nothing I can do about it. Roupen M on May 28 2006, 02:39pm Reply
Why can't ICANN electronically monitor the registrars and if the domain name has already been released under the 5 day rule the domain name would have a "Can't resell for 15 days" flag on it and if it is sold again after the 15 days, and released again under the 5 day rule, it would be locked for 60 or more days. If after the 60 days, the domain name is requested again, the registrar would need to request authorization from ICANN to resell the name. A domain name would only be granted "ONE" 5 day money back rule in 2 years. If a registrar is found supporting this kiting scheme they should be fined $1K for each occurrence. Just my thoughts!
Something must be done!
Don Donald R Houdek on May 27 2006, 06:41pm Reply
Was beaten to a domain just the other day by aforementioned domain squatting knitter. Having sat through a lengthy backorder process only to be beaten at the last min by some link farm registry.. something has to be done to stop this. Alex (http://boltonsearchengineoptimisation.blogspot.com) on May 27 2006, 06:02am Reply
This scheme makes search engine searches difficult. I have clicked on those pages, only to find there are just more links. Grrrrr Joyce (http://niteynight.com) on May 27 2006, 03:00am Reply
Nice article Bob,
I never heard the term "domain kiting" before this article. I am on the internet a lot and see many marketed pages with useless content that only is there to make money with affiliate links or adsense. I see some come and go. New pages are always popping up that look similar to other ones. I believe there needs to be an ICANN policy to prevent domain name abuse. I am tired of hearing about unethical pratices for monetary gain.
Oh Bob, give us a good and happy article. It gets tiring hearing all about bad stuff in the news. So how was your weekend? Ray Solomon (http://www.ray-solomon.com) on May 26 2006, 08:56pm Reply
If you could, you should indicate in GoDaddy's domain name search results, whether a domain name is currently being "Kited". If it is, then you could offer the searcher an option of buying your domain name backordering service for it, on the spot.
If I were looking for a domain name and found one that I liked, but that was currently involved in a kiting scheme, I'd certainly purchase backordering for it, in hopes that I'd eventually be able to get it.
Additionally, your backordering service could try to synch up on the kiter's pattern of releasing and then re-registering the name in order to improve the odds that you could snag it for me.
Sure. it's like how ICANN is not doing anything about people who steal WHOIS information and send you those annoying "invoices" in the post to get you to renew your domain name with them.
I have personally written to ICANN about this, and even though it is illegal to use WHOIS information for commercial puposes, ICANN doesn't care that companies are doing this. Patrick (http://imeducate.com) on May 26 2006, 11:59am Reply
I came to GoDaddy this afternoon to register a domain name for my employer only to find that it's been registered by what I believe to be a domain squatter. I don't think this individual is actually performing any "kiting" activities because the WHOIS data I pulled indicated that the name I was trying to obtain has been registered since 2003. However, the domain name resolves to a web site that has nothing but advertising links on the page (It's clear what this person is up to based on the contact email address on the site: domaindividends@local.com - they "manage" domain "properties" for monetary benefit). I could be wrong about the kiting thing, but that's not really the point of my post. I "googled" the individual listed as the registrant for the domain name I was trying to get and discovered that he was involved in at least one abritration procedure through the "WIPO" (an international organization that arbitrates domain name disputes, among other things). The domain squatter was apparently sued by a company who's domain name he was able to "appropriate" and the matter was evidently referred to the WIPO for arbitration. If you're interested, you can find the background and outcome here:
I'm not at all familiar with the power the WIPO wields nor with the extent to which its findings are binding upon the parties involved in arbitrations, but it's good to see that truth and justice sometimes prevail (this is not the first time I've seen rulings against so-called internet business men who's motives are clearly in "bad faith". If you browse to the complaintant's web address (which was the subject of the dispute described in the above link), you'll see that it's apparently back where it belongs so I'm assuming that the WIPO's decisions must carry some sort of legal weight.
It is inevitable, I would hope, that businesses and individuals who behave in this manner will (sooner or later) realize that they're paying more money to the attorneys who must defend them than they're earning through their pathetic little squatting and/or kiting schemes.
With regard to the lack of attention ICANN has demonstrated relative to this issue, this seems to be consistent with a disturbing trend I've observed over the last few years - the people who are supposed to represent the interests of the many (politicians, for example) seem more interested in doing what is easy than doing what is right. Michael McConnell on May 26 2006, 11:54am Reply
As an entrepreneur, I am appalled to learn about this practice and lack of concern from the powers that be. I currently own 9 domain names. And when I search for new ones, I used to go through the process of trying to find out who has it and what are they doing with it. Most of the time I have come across pages and pages of links (to my utter dissappointment). I could have used that name!
I was wondering if the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) or the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) would have any jurisdiction in this matter. Vivian Aldana (http://www.addonincome.com) on May 26 2006, 07:54am Reply
I did not realise that they were not paying - I did however realize how many names that i wished to buy were caught up in this ad link scheme. shame shame shame to those who use this scheme and abuse the system. something must be done about it - what sort of body is ICANN if they dont even want to police this issue. again shame shame shame to ICAAN. I did some advertising on Google and guess where i found my ads? on some of those kited link pages. I did complain about 9 months ago but Google assured me of quality placements ha ha - i guess i am the goose - I let it go - now look whats been revealed from google. Kevtherev (http://www.forumsau.com) on May 26 2006, 05:39am Reply
I have reason to believe that the domain kiters actually infiltrate back-ordered names so they can somehow steal them away from you before you have a chance to register them. Then they ask an exorbitant amount and they themselves haven't even paid for it yet! David on May 25 2006, 06:36pm Reply
A major issue is the rogue traders and companies buying up hundreds of thousands of domains and just parking them . This stifles the growth and innovation of the Internet. Surely the Nets governing body can do something about these rogue parasites even by charging 500 per domain name per year would be a sensible idea in which case the Nets governing body would make money and these rogue companies would not be able to afford thousands of domains. Mike on May 25 2006, 07:02am Reply
There is another problem with kiting that is often overlooked. It is the jamming of search engines with these worthless sites, while legitimate businesses get shoved lower and lower on the pages.
How many times have you conducted a search and the first five or ten sites were simply search engine crap? It used to be rare — now, you can pretty much guarantee that any search will include domain kiters in the top positions.
More important than fairness is the fact that this is stifling legitimate commerce via the Internet. Names which could be purchased and developed are tied up. The fact is that probably 90% of the problems (kiting, spam, phishing) are caused by less than 500 people worldwide.
This isn't brain surgery.
Frankly, I fault our lawmakers. Where are the laws that make forging a header mail fraud and carrying a five year sentence? Why isn't domain kiting considered theft of service? Why isn't creating and releasing a virus a felony?
Put a law into effect and allow a legitimate registrar (such as GoDaddy) to sue the top four or five offenders for loss of revenue from intentionally tying up domains they could be legitimately selling.
But that would require ICANN to cooperate. Shelly on May 24 2006, 03:59pm Reply
Bob,
I forgot to mention ...
I've always worried about these pages which offer you the facility to check the availability of a domain name as it seems like the ideal opportunity to have a website which auto-registers every domain which is asked for and then makes that person pay through the nose for the domain.
Or maybe I'm just being too devious!
Nick Nick on May 24 2006, 02:50pm Reply
I worry about that too NIck, Ive been trying to find a simple webname for my tarot and counselling website that people dont misspell when entering - but they are taken - but not used - whats up with that! Suzi (www.lovepeaceandtarot.com) (http://www.lovepeaceandtarot.com) on Jun 6 2006, 06:39pm Reply
Bob,
Interesting. I'd never heard of striping.
On checking DirectNIC's website I noticed an advert proudly stating that they have genuine (whatever that means) SSL certificates for $70 - "lowest cost in the industry".
I'm rather confused as you have SSL certificates for $20 (or less).
Surely their advert should be reported to the relevant advertising standards body as its blatantly untrue.
Nick Nick on May 24 2006, 02:46pm Reply
So, if these organizations are consistently putting up the money to register the names at $6 and are registering the same names again and again, how is this different from buying the names? after all, they are out the $6 if they buy the name outright and if they are merely depositing it again and again. Geoffrey Ludt (http://www.ludt.com) on May 24 2006, 02:34pm Reply
I would love to use the same $100 bill to get 20 or 30 new cordless drills! And STILL get to keep the $100 bill!
It's NOT the same as paying for them. That's the point, they NEVER pay for them!
Thanks Bob for bringing this issue to the forefront
BTW I am a proud WWD Reseller and the kiters will never get my 100s of personally owned domains! Hah!
So then the issue is that the money is never actually lost so if the registrar decides to hault the purchasing of a particular domain, they may do so at no loss to them.
This process is harmful to us, the consumers, who are prevented from legally grabbing any of these domains and putting up websites of relevance, and this process I am sure is detrimental to the domain registry's accounting department, especially if they are operating under accrual based accounting.
Essentially, you are correct, it is not much different than just purchasing the domains, so why don't they do so instead of playing this game and causing everyone else problems. Josh (http://www.hivoltagedesigns.com) on Jun 5 2006, 10:13pm Reply
Hi Geoffrey,
The difference is that a normal domain name owner has to spend more than 6$ EVERY YEAR.
While in the Domain Kitting scheme they can use the Domain name without time limit for 6$ that they´ll recover at will.
Because for every $6 they put down, they get $6 back.
6-6 = $0 paid for registration. Craig on Jun 1 2006, 12:00pm Reply
Bob,
I had no idea this practice was going on and probably explains why I can never get the domain name I want, but there's always so "parked" page there.
I have a question about the Add/Drop. If the registar cancels before the 5 day grace and the name is dropped, can I get the name by paying the extra $18 to have it backordered? Or does the Registar still have the right to go in and Renew the name without it every hitting the market for even 1 day? If I can backorder a name I truly want, then I wouldn't mind so much. Please advise.
Thanks Your Loyal Customer,
Jeff J. R. on May 24 2006, 01:44pm Reply
This is another bad guy abusing the system - MDNH, Inc
Never click on ads on their page. Sanjay on May 24 2006, 01:38pm Reply
Great article. I never knew what this was called or how it worked, but I always wondered about those sites with all the links. They are quite annoying. Donnetta (http://www.donnetta.com) on May 24 2006, 07:57am Reply
As long as the big boys are getting into the game it won't go away. Look at this story.
Just like buying anything from a spam email rewards the spammer, clicking on a link on one of these domains ("...not find what you're looking for? "click here" for additional related topics..." rewards these domain kiters. Don't do it! Educate your friends and family NOT to click on any links on a website that isn't the website they expected to find at a given domain URL... use a "legitimate" search engine to find what you are looking for. Scott (http://www.AllThatYouWish.com) on May 23 2006, 05:28pm Reply
Thank you for your letters and article Mr. Parsons regarding the kiting schemes. I actually lost a domain name this way. The registrar would not allow me to renew my own name and then I saw it on a list of domains for sale along with a list of links. That is the reason I transferred all of my domains to GoDaddy. I actually had the domain and was never informed it was about to expireand then that it actually expired. During the grace period I was not allowed to renew my own domain name. The name became untouchable for several weeks then it was "taken." I even paid for the backorders through a few companies wishing I could get my domain name back. At least I know I am not the only small business suffering as a result of this activity. I thought it was more like an extortion scheme because they were selling my domain name for a very large sum of money, much more than I could pay. Again, thanks for bringing awareness about this scheme. It doesn't help me get my domain name back, but at least awareness is a good start. Karen (http://www.GymnasticsStuff.com) on May 23 2006, 02:28pm Reply
Bob,
the internet community owes you one. I never knew such things happened. And I think a lot of people didn't. You must have opened the eyes of millions with this article and the attention you gave it in Life Online. You are so right, this has to be stopped and be made illegal. This scheme is so annoying. Everyone has seen one of these pages with "search engine links". But who ever clicks it ? Not me, that's for sure, the first thing I do when I see such a screen is close it. I really hope the people at ICANN wake up and start acting against this. May I recommend them to reduce the grace period to 4 days and announce it on the day that this starts ? That will teach the cowards behind these schemes a lesson by taking a lot of their money 1 day earlier then they expect. But since that sounds too good to be true and will never happen, they will have to at least stop working with registrars that seem to be connected in any way with this scheme.
Keep on pressing this issue at ICANN Bob, you will do us all a favor.
Another simple solution is to set (a random no refund day), so this way once they got catched on a no refund day, they will need to put more money for registering at veri$ign. Pablo Pablo (http://www.peu.net) on May 23 2006, 11:11am Reply
I just ran a search in Yahoo news and Google news for 'domain kiting'. There were no results.
Why has a Press Release not been issued, Bob?
http://www.prweb.com
I just called the local clearchannel news channel to report this scheme, and they seemed very interested.
I also called CNN, and was promised that they would "forward the information", which gives me very little confidence that effort will be made. I am concerned it will go to a nontechnical intermediary who will dismiss it offhand.
Okay, fine.
CNN can be contacted by phone at (404) 827-2600, or by email at cnn.com/feedback if anyone wants to follow up with me.
We need to get the news to do more than "forward the information". John Bottomley (http://www.maui.us) on May 23 2006, 10:41am Reply
Thanks again for getting the word out on this one. There are so many schemes on the internet that it's almost impossible to keep up.
Domain Kiting makes the internet a worse place. I'm sure I've run into these useless sites, with the page full of ads and no information.
I can see where someone who makes money off registering domain names would be upset by someone who is scamming the system and hence making it difficult to get those names. I can't say I care either. This is America. Most of the computer and internet business is one crook out crooking another crook. Hell the whole country is based upon scamming someone and not getting caught or being rich enough to buy your way out of trouble. I give you Bill Gates, Steve Case, etc...as examples. This entire business is about people who have more knowledge about how this stuff works charging everyone else what the market will support not necessarily what the product is worth. Take eBay for instance. They are selling nanowebpages basically for a dollar or two a pop to millions of people and then snagging them for a percentage coming out the other side. That is all eBay is. People still get ripped off and scammed. eBay doesn't do anything about it. The only real innovations on the NET are places like GOOGLE who have actually created something new. 99.9999% of the web is just like someone who has a giant harddrive and they are selling you part of it with some bells and whistles attached. Then they wait until they suck you in and put their bells and whistles far enough apart that its like walking through Mal-Wart where you have to walk the entire store to get two items that should be right next to each other.
Sorry if I don't shed a tear here. This place isn't any different than any other site that is crafted to make it just difficult enough to make you jump around to get what you paid for and hopefully get you to buy something else along the way. HEY IN FACT I CAN THINK OF 7 DOMAIN NAMES YOU CAN HAVE. They are the ones in the low rent ghetto section of the auction. Which isn't really smart since some of those names in the ghetto would earn a larger percentage for GoDaddy than some of the stupid names you see on more costly (A) list that don't sell.
I predict this business has about a year or two left before its business model and carnival barker ways crushes it. I doubt however that those at the top will be left holding any bags.
Of course I don't expect this response to even make it to the public. Comments will be subject to moderation (censorship) before being displayed. Now that's a surprise. Not. I'm not going to list my domain names like these cheesey people who used their comments as a free ad.
Boo Hoo BOB. Here's a quarter. EdDaddy (http://Yahoo) on May 22 2006, 10:41pm Reply
I agree with you. This was very funny commentary, and quite true. Bottom line is everyone is out to make a buck in America. So now we are blowing the whistle on Domain Kiting? Making up names, "domain kiting" then saying what a problem it is. Whatever. GoDaddy is out to make a buck too, so you just don't like the guy who is making the buck quicker than you...
I can see how "domain kiting" hurts businesses like GoDaddy. That's about it.
I would hope don't censor this comment. corey on Jun 4 2006, 05:52pm Reply
Actually, you're wrong. Domain kiting hurts real business people who are selling legitimate goods and services via the Internet.
Does kiting hurt GoDaddy? Sure, and every other registrar out there. But it also hurts every webmaster, businesses who can't get decent names, and Internet users by filling up the search engines with worthless sites.
There is no sin in making money. Providing products for society to consume is a worthwhile and beneficial endeavor.
Maybe you should try it. Shelly on Jun 7 2006, 04:52pm Reply
Another brilliant piece by Mr Parsons. I hope you are able to use your position of authority to get some movement on this issue.
What specifically about the practice should be banned? Is it the continuous renewing of the domain name or the fact that it is done even one time?
As far as a one-time practice, it sounds like a free market at work. Domain parking exists (GoDaddy itself parks other peoples sites which were registered with godaddy, and earns revenue on them in the same manner - without sharing that revenue at all with the rightful owner of the domain... until you decide to do something with your domain).
The Domain Kiting practice (at least the first registration) seems to be a very efficient way to find cash flow positive names. Why pay for it if it does not generate income? I agree to continuously repeat the process, and thus keep the domain off the market, does not intuitively seem right. But the rest can be automated, so what's the differnce between returning one domain and returning 100,000?
Bob, I think you should revist GoDaddy's practice of not sharing revenue with (or turnign it ALL over to) your customers who own their domains, that you profit from, before you get too critical and call the kettle black.
Here's another idea. What if GoDaddy could provide domain kiting information and list exactly when the domain was last registered, last re-registered, and how many days between the 2. GoDaddy could then establish a code of some sort that states the domain has been kited and when we should try back to register it within the tiny window of time in which it is available. This will help us to know if we even have a chance at registering it and stealing it back from those idiots. I call those "Spam" sites because you never get any useful info from them and you don't care to see those sites. Just like spam in your email. Linda on May 22 2006, 08:44am Reply
I hate this scheme. In fact I didn't know it was a scheme until I read this, but it explains alot. The things they will do to make money! It makes me mad. Lots of domains that I would like to buy are taken by these worthless "search engines" that no one will ever use. Now I know why. My current websites domain, samguzman.com was one of these domains. I was fortunate however, to catch it just after it had been dropped and now I am the proud owner. Some one needs to do something about this. It is a dirty scheme and besides taking advantage of the system, it is hogging many otherwise useful domains. Sam Guzman (http://samguzman.com) on May 21 2006, 08:28pm Reply
Isn't it Google or Godaddy that owns VeriSign or something like that? PL (http://milleniawebworks.com) on May 28 2006, 04:54pm Reply
I am shocked that Verisign is not on board to remove this practice. Or perhaps there is a good reason.
If there is money to be made then there would be a reason.
I think Icann will continue to look the other way until international law changes the practice. What Icann and others don't realize that when an entity doesn't regulate it's self the government will try and step in and do it for you.
( and we all love that right? )
This is why the internet is slowly becoming the wild wild mess. When not to long ago it was the New Wild Wild West.
Time to saddle up and put the horses in the barn and wait out the storm, Don't be surprised if we all end up riding the asphalt hi-way. Where fields and Streams once laid.
Thank you very much for the insightful article. Now I have a complete and full understanding as to why I have trouble getting domain names! I can't tell you how many hours my clients and I have wasted trying to get domain names due to 'domain kiting'. Thanks for keeping us (the little guys) informed on what is happening in the industry.
That happend to me, but thanks to the ROBOT of godaddy (backorder service) i take back my domain from opensrs.net and/or afflitiates after 3 months more or less of expirate date , and see my domain work with search engines page all that time. Also i have a email when they ask me for sell the domain by 950 US dollars, coming from info@domibot.com. Douglas Wiessel (http://syslucas.com) on May 21 2006, 04:48pm Reply
high bob,
thanks again for illuminating slugs in the system.
i will transfer my existing directnic domains to your company. presently i have 57 domains with your company and 10 with directnic.
you're a stand-up fella.
When it comes to Sigmund Solares (the main cybersquatter in the US), Icann has shown it's perfectly happy to keep the fox in charge on the hen house. I wonder — are they inept or corrupt?
Solares should be in jail, not in charge of registrars. DC on May 21 2006, 10:39am Reply
The best thing to do on a personal level is to ensure you have auto-renewal set-up on any domains you want to keep.
Concerning the problem as a whole, is there an active effoort to outlaw domain kiting?
Whats the best action to take to stop this nonsense?
A limit to the number of times and individual or entity can register a particular domain in a year?! (...as preposterous as that sounds...) Kurt on May 21 2006, 07:31am Reply
Although this is offtopic, I just fully switched over all my email to GoDaddy.
Its just nice to see you pinpoint the problem as clearly as you have. Posts like this convince me I am doing business with the right people. Michael (http://www.solasproductions.com/) on May 20 2006, 04:48pm Reply
Hi Bob,
I wanted to say, great article! I'm usually a little at odds with some of the things you say in your articles, but I have to say that this one is well said.
I completely agree that these registrars are abusing the five-day refund period because it was not intended for that purpose. Thank you for pointing out that the correct plan of action involves getting those in control to put obstacles in place to discourage "domain kiting". Thank you also for not making the plan of action to pass legislation against the domain kiters or something like unto it. They may be "abusing" the system, but they are in their rights. Adam Jeppson (http://blog.jeppys.com) on May 20 2006, 12:33pm Reply
I am humbled - and find it appropriate to send you yet another message.
Foremost, I can honestly say that your response to issues as they pertain to your Support Personnel and network operations is very impressive. You not only respond, you respond cordiate and ready to resolve an issue. This I have experienced twice in the past year - and that says a lot.
The latest support issues that I initially posted a comment on here has in part, been resolved, and much to my satisfaction.
Our server is a small cog in the big wheel of GD accounts - that I'm sure of. And I am rarely pulled into the loop of support issues for the sites and FTP accounts we host on it.
The latest issue dealing with SMTP activity is a very interesting one - as I was able to flesh out with Kyle Barnes in your Support Department. I will escalate this to our Product Support Services division at MSFT and review it - as I suspect it has to do with a latest string of updates from MSFT. These do not address specific OS updates as much as Outlook (or Office SP1 quite possibly) updates. The update turned off all email accounts where the setting was 'My SMTP Server Requires Authentication'. I was dumb-founded when I discovered this.
I am humbled by the response from your personnel, and I sincerely apologize if at any time any of my personal tickets or postings were seemingly beligerent or out of line (which I try very hard NOT to let happen). Again, with my schedule, I RARELY get involved with the support of this dedicated server. It's there primarily for our MCS personnel to do modeling on - yet it does host a half dozen significant accounts (which help pay for the server).
My hat is off to you, Mr. Parsons. I will work more diligently to personally address any/all support issues on the account - and I look forward to doing more business with you.
No, this post is not applicable to your blog - but I suspect it will find its way to you - and I just wanted to say 'thank you'.
very interesting, I knew something like that was going on but I wasn't aware of the specifics? How do they make money when someone clicks on one of the links on a minisite? Are they sponsored advertisments? Thanks! Patrick Sanders on May 20 2006, 11:02am Reply
Rachel Storm??? That sounds like a Stage Name...but a good one! Believe it or not, the data is correct, people respond to a pretty woman included in an email, and I enjoy seeing Rachel's smile in those emails I get every day, and on your index page. A good choice.
Yesterday after posting, I browsed through some of the other products available to GoDaddy customers and came across your Webstock photos. As I usually do, I typed in webstockphotos.com into my browser to see what it would turn up and ended up on pages that I can only presume are what you've described...a page filled with links, but nothing about Webstock photos. I thought it interesting that others may just be capitalizing off your traffic with the practice you denounce here.
I love GoDaddy...and love the charicature of you Bob! I gotta know if it was one of your kids that said "Go Daddy" and GoDaddy.com was born.
I suppose there's little impetus to curtail kiting....as long as the money keeps coming in and no one gets hurt. ;As I see it, it only affects a relative few. Until it hurts more people, there won't be a change.
In response to your article about ideas Bob....if you've got those millions of domains you've sold, a directory of GoDaddy customers/websites would be cool. That could lead to a GoDaddy search engine. "Type in a few words and then click GO-DADDY!" Don't forget to send me a royalty check when you get it operational!
You seem to say that no one is getting hurt. That's not true. You said you googled webstockphotos.com Why? What did you expect to find there? Maybe some webstock photos?
Exactly! That's the point. From a business, economic, financial position that domain would be far more productive if the product or service offered on it was in some way related to what the domain name describes. Instead, you get a page of advertisements.
If you are looking for a domain name don't see if it's available by typing it into you browser. The "kiters" will see that as a hit and will keep renewing the domain. Instead, go to Go Daddy's site and enter it there.
How many times have you anted to register a domain only to see ads parked there?
Well perhaps if you cant beat them you play them at there own game and overload the system totally.
I be willing to deposit $1000 and play 5 day domain name games might find a good name in the process that way there be more compitition for the names now if we had 1000 pepole doing the same wont work as well for them will it Jot (http://www.jot.cc) on May 20 2006, 04:28am Reply
don't thing companies taking adv of the 5 day doing anyhting illegal ... the rule is their and are taking adv of it
now since there is overusage of it...they have to change this 5 day period..cause Bob is correct : re-registering it every 5 days keeps dn on a holder for ever without paying for it .....not refunding the .25 cents fee will DROP this huge overusage ...just a simple action to limit this problem
Now, noone can proove it BUT the only logical explanation of ICANN's upsent would be the hidden $$$$$ they take from some big dn inverstors ..............
This is an infuriating practice!
But "domain squatting" is equally offensive and has been going on for much longer.
WHY SHOULD ANYONE BE LEGALLY ABLE TO SELL A DOMAIN NAME FOR MORE THAN THEY PAID??
Ticket scalping is illegal...why is domain scalping allowed? The "spirit" of a domain is that you buy it and USE it for its intended purpose...a virtual active space for information...NOT cattle on auction. (Hell, I never even understood why a .ORG could legally be registered by any entity other than an offically non-profit ORGanization. I mean what was the point in having 3 different original public domains if there were no enforced parameters for each? The GOV and EDU domains certainly seemed to be regulated somehow. I didn't/don't see anyone registering NakedPartyGirls.gov!)
I imagine the problem is that the internet was birthed by intelligent, ethical people who simply expected everyone else to participate in a logical way...respectful of the intended structure.
So my question, Bob, is... if we still haven't righted the simple historic wrongs of a domain system that was founded on a noble but horribly naive "honor" system, what chance do we have in reversing the current compounding rape of the system by typical opportunist pigs?
(If you've addressed "squatting/scalping" before please post the article link)
WHY SHOULD ANYONE BE LEGALLY ABLE TO SELL A DOMAIN NAME FOR MORE THAN THEY PAID??
Zack -
Then why should anyone be legally able to sell real estate for more than what they paid??
Simple, capitalize on the open market. With domain names 10 years ago most where not trademarked and name investors knew this. If one was register a trademarked name on any ext. then that practice is infringement. You see names where like the Oklahoma land rush way back in the mid. 1800's. Just open for a claim.
I have had 5 digtit offers presented to me with names I was not even trying to sell. Brian (http://www.trucking.ws) on May 28 2006, 10:22am Reply
"WHY SHOULD ANYONE BE LEGALLY ABLE TO SELL A DOMAIN NAME FOR MORE THAN THEY PAID??"
Thats called free enterprise. There are companies who grab 1-800 telephone numbers and resell them.
Some people speculate on land they will never use but expect to sell for a profit.
Nothing wrong or illegal about buying and selling domain names.
The article about kiting though is a real problem. If you are going to speculate you have to pay to register the names. What he is talking about is like writing a bad check or floating a check. Much different.
This seriously SUCKS. My friend had a domain name for his band that he let expire. As the more techie guy, I try to do him a favor and re-register it. I get a GoDaddy backorder product to auto-renew the name as soon as it's deleted.
Some BS piece of $##! registrar named SPOT DOMAIN LLC (domainsite.com) was able to register it BEFORE the GoDaddy BackOrder could do it. Now it's going to go through the 5 day cycle forever. Will GoDaddy's back order ever beat it to the punch? I sincerely hope so.
This practice makes me LIVID. A one time 5 day purchase and refund would make sense... but an INDEFINITE WAY to continually re-register the name forever, every 5 days??!!! This is absurd. It's a shame lawmakers cannot stop this kind of thing, yet they'll push for net neutrality BS.
Someone is going to eventually take the law into their own hands. Carlos Saenz (http://enola.net) on May 19 2006, 03:29pm Reply
My simular experience was that I had back-ordered two domains like that and stupid enom domains somewhow wezzed their way of getting the two domains before I could even get notified of their sudden avaliability.
Actually, until I became a GoDaddy Customer I never really knew about domain back-ordering and its benefits. It would seem that names.com also is in the habbit of what I call "Domain Name Stalking" by delibertally stalking the domain name whois registars with random potiential domain name searchs of just any domains that could be a potiential good use for just anyone. These emom, and tucows registars have a habbit of grabbing these potiential domains like the guy who stalked for domain name " myabc.com " as he is from Grand Rapids, Michigan Area as I am — he knew that the local ABC affilate tv station WOTV 4 wotv4.com would like to have that domain. He knew that I had checked on its avaliability and wanted it for the friends I have at that local network station. He owns it and has it parked on a parked page. He is not using it. When I was an emom customer I had it in my shopping cart and was going to buy it. It was grabbed out from under me. Be aware of domain name stalkers who buy domains and put them on a for sale page parked and want litterally thousands of dollars for them. This guy wants over $10,000 for this domain. I am not paying that much for a domain. Devin (http://www.widenationhost.com/) on May 21 2006, 09:22am Reply
The only way to resolve this is through action. While Bob's doing great things for us "netters", he can hardly do it alone. Banding together and sending the same message to ICANN MIGHT turn up the heat, or they may be deaf and unable to hear us. I'd be willing to send an email or twelve, how about you? So Bob, have one of your developers make the form for us to send to the "knotheads" that be, and I'll be happy to sign it and send it to my friends and co-workers.
The real relevant question is: Who's the model that you use on your homepage and the emails you send to me????? Stephen on May 19 2006, 12:20pm Reply
Dear Stephen,
The model on Go Daddy's home page and various emails is our very own Rachel Storm. But bad news my friend, Rachel is happily married and a mother of a wonderful young daughter.
I just read your post about " kiting ". You are correct. This practice is even worse than you mention. You were too mild in your remarks about ICAN. Perhaps there is more money "changing hands" in this situation than we know about. How many millions of dollars are the "kiters" stealing (perhaps I should be more politically correct and say "kiters are making" - but I still consider it stealing).
Seems to me that if Dr. Twomey won't do anything about it, it is time to get whatever government agency that has the power to do something to do something. Surely ICAN cannot be immune to all legislation passed by congress.
Has anyone thought of a lobby to present the case for control over this area?
Bob, please use you position of influence to start petitioning legislators to introduce a bill to control this.
This practice hurts many thousands and only and benefits relatively few. I for one would be willing to donate to a fund to start a petition drive.
About this kiting issue. This seems to be one of a few issues but after reading about this from your article I suggest all of the registrars do not allow a 5 day recision period. Make them buy them outright and be done with it.
As for the problem i had with your company I will try and discuss this issue with you so that maybe YOU can fix your problem. I transferred my domain name from Register.com in jan to godaddy and then got my website up with alamode, inc for real estate. I was up and running and the transfer from godady was complete but my original domain name expired in March on the 11th and when i transferred it to you you guys dropped the ball and did not actually reregister me. Then some guy bought it unbekknownst to me that it had expired because you managed to send only an automated e-mail to my defunct e-mail according to your records. I had to start all of my marketing over again because the guy who bought it was a scammer too and wanted $4800 for it. Obviously I just got a new domain name. Your assistant of your office told me your company never had the transfer complete which is not true. It had been and Register.com said they had released it and when I did the dns.. thing to alamode it was from go daddy. Your company took no responsibility for your screw up. That is a HUGE problem YOU need to fix. I was out tons of time, money and the overwhelming feeling of not knowing what happened and how to fix it caused me to break down and ask my daughter for help. You need to sort this out.
Sincerely,
Bobette Stanbridge Bobette Stanbridge on May 27 2006, 07:28am Reply
Dear Bobette,
The problem here is that most kiters are registrars.
Does she have an open marriage ? How do you make money from clicking on a web link? I don't understand that part. Nate Andrews (http://nateandrews.com) on May 24 2006, 05:52pm Reply
Hi Bob,
Loved your article-very informative and a real eye-opener. It's unfortunate that the people behind the domain industry are although highly educated are also big time sell-outs to the almighty dollar (or euro). Maybe a cataclysmic event such as a "near collapse" of the domain market is the only way these executive "whores" will do some action.
Is the same thing about to happen to the .eu domains? I tried registering 40 names and almost all of them were rejected. The only ones that were left are hanging by a very thin thread. Do you expect this extension to flourish in the near future? It is taking forever to even register even the most obscure.eu name. Based on your artice, I am inclined to think that the .eu system is already inherently corruted and he authorities have failed to learn from the mistakes of of their predecessors. Best of luck to you and your wondeful company.
If direct consumer and business lobby to ICANN is not effective - is there anything similar to www.HandsOff.org for this issue for the public to lobby washington?
When regulatory systems don't work there is usually a reason. ICANN and verisign must benefit themselves by not taking any action. Why else would they allow this practice to continue? Rolf Larson on May 19 2006, 03:45am Reply
ps - take away the money back guarantee, for 10 bucks if you choose the wrong domain name(that you would normally spend some time thinking of anyway - so this is not normally the case) so what - let it expire after 12 months... thats just a few less cans of beer for the year... dvr on May 19 2006, 01:03am Reply
I feel that a domain, once bought, should have a standard grace period of say 6 months once it has expired or returned to the system if the buyer gets a refund after excercising a money back garantee - eg like the article explains, the domain name cannot be reregistered within this grace period. this would grind the kiting to a holt. dvr on May 19 2006, 12:57am Reply
Bob Parsons/GoDaddy are great. I only wish I had begun business with them long ago. I have used their customer service many times without one complaint, ever. Recently I used the customer service of a Fortune 100 company it was horrible. Most companies I have had the misfortune of having to have a problem solved with have had terrible service. But not GoDaddy. I believe their business is truly for the common man.
I've been involved in the Internet since its inception. I am just a small business person who makes 100% of his income in legitimate Internet Business, managing customers and hundreds of small websites across the Internet. As a small business person I constantly look for new ways to increase my income and survivability in my business. I consistantly have to compete against unethical, unscrupulous lying thieves stealing money from innocent and naive people. I compete by being honest, running an ethical and fair business and more importantly, always being there for my customers.
Domain Kiting is unethical. It obviously abuses the system by playing up a loophole. I am sick of hearing about it just as I am sick of unethical people that have no moral values. I would like to thank Bob Parsons for standing up and taking a position on this and for being there for us, the common person. I dread the day that GoDaddy sells to the one that pays the right price, or Bob retires or whatever for I know then GoDaddy will never be the same. I only hope I am out of the game when that happens.
ICANN is NOT the Internet. VERISIGN is NOT the Internet. The Internet is a system of and about the collectiveness of people. YOU are the Internet. I am the Internet.
The only way OUR voice will be heard is for us to collectively scream at the top of our lungs from the highest hill. The Internet was and is about collective togetherness.
Therefore, I have put together a way for us to collect ourselves together into one big, fat pile of names. I will take that big. fat pile of names and use it to holler loud upon the highest hill I can find. This is the way to be heard. I was recently involved in a battle here where I live to save my lake which I reside 50 feet from in a nice house. Those that wanted to ruin its beauty with an environmental fiasco secretly collected together a group to do this. It was almost a done deal but then I and a few others found out and we went around and collected names of those that did not want this here. No one would listen to us. But then we had collected 1000 names of residents along the lake. Now everyone listens to us and the "done deal" is now dying on the vine. The power of our voice is in numbers and always has been.
Should you choose to make your voice heard, walk with me at http://www.spiritsign.net/stop_kiting and leave your name that collectively perhaps we can yell more loudly. This is the only way we will get something done, by creating a tidal wave, a veritable flood of names hollering against this practice. Thank you. Thomas (http://www.spiritsign.net/stop_kiting) on May 18 2006, 11:19pm Reply
Thomas I was unable to post my comment after I signed your petition @ www.spiritsign.net/stop_kiting.
Which stated: "I'm a cautious non-risk taking entrepreneur wanna-be. Would like to someday soon register a domain name and have been disturbed about the kiting article. That sort of thing might make it hard for me to be creative with my name choice."
PS Thanks Bob for the enlightening of this first time reader of your blog. Anonymous on May 20 2006, 01:17pm Reply
Anonymous, not sure if that was you or us as to why you couldn't post your comment when you signed the petition at spiritsign.net/stop_kiting but I have went through the php code and did find one small error which has been fixed and might have contributed to it so if you like you can try again. Thanks for your comment.
Thomas- Concerned Netizen that wants to raise 100,000 signatures to turn in to those idiots in control.
Hmm.. reminds me of an old acronym we used to use back in the old days in chat..TABATIIC, anyone remember that one??
("Throws a beer at those idiots in control" Thomas Wright (http://www.spiritsign.net/stop_kiting) on May 22 2006, 12:34am Reply
The only legal way to curb it is to bring public awareness to the problem. If people find it offensive, they'll be a lot less ad clicks. However, how would you know which is legit and which is kiting of squatting? Anonymous on May 18 2006, 06:14am Reply
Bob,
Nice article, but not sure whether anyone will do anything to fix this issue. I wronte to ICANN after seeing your prev.post, and I got a reply saying they cannot address that issue. Weird.
I personaly witnessed this kiting recently. I saw one domain name expiring soon. I thought I can register once it is expired after seeing that it was on pending delete status.
1.Just at the day of deletion, it was grabbed by X (one leading registrar) [See I am so scared to type the registrar's name ]. The whois search gives that it will expire in 1 year.
2. After 5 days the same domain name is shown different owner with a new whois record info.
3. After 5 days the whois record shows a new registrar.
All these times, the parked page goes to different ad sites and also for few days the domain was on for bid. And the page says it will negotiate with the original owner But whois record shows that both are same
Sure this is a big scam. I am not sure ICANN does really care or not. Because of this good domain names are permanently stolen and those who want to register for legitmitate purpose lose the chance.
I guess only people in your position are the kind of people who can make something about it.
As a satisfied godaddy customer, Im behind you man (as I think many others will be).
I agree that this is a very distasteful practice, on par with the Verisign Sitefinder initiative... and i have a question:
How would someone go and grab a doman tied up in a domain kiting scheme? Robert (http://www.dissman.us) on May 17 2006, 04:43pm Reply
Good points, and interesting discussion - but time to come up with a concrete proposal for what action will [b]work[/b] - if ICANN can be persuaded to move ... Quadrille (http://www.seo2seo.com/) on May 17 2006, 04:38pm Reply
Some people have mentioned that the ads shown on the kited webpages come from Google. This may be so, though Google usually tags its ads, as such, so one might consider this to be improbable. Also, given that Google says that it only wants to place ads on pages with content (as obviously it should) then it would be breaking its own ethics code. So I doubt that Google is behind the ads - so who is? Which company can place / serve so many ads to these kited websites? I like the idea of creating some sort of register and attacking these pages with clicks - that WOULD get some people to sit up and pay attention to this terrible situation. Hit their pockets ! John (http://www.royalholidayclubbed.com) on May 17 2006, 04:37pm Reply
I traced a 'kited' domain name that was stolen from me via innocent whois search. After trying to register it via GoDaddy I found out it got registered 2 days before by Domibot. Long story.
Tracking down what there was, the domain leaded to a 'parked page' with ads from two different companies: Google AdSense and Oingo, pop unders from Casalmedia and search boxes provided by AppliedSemantics.
Though I could 'recover' the domain after waiting and hoping they might drop it, I saved the source code of that page and sent it to the companies I mentioned in the upper paragraph. It was clear that it represented a mutual violation of codes of conduct (Google's, at least), and they might be able to track the customer's account through the ad links.
I still haven't had a reply (neither human nor automated) about this issue from any company, so I don't know if they also are into this and get any profit. Marcos (http://www.cybmark.com) on May 28 2006, 01:04am Reply
I am really astounded by the corrupt practices like these. Now thats good it means american bereaucrats give competition to third world country counterparts. It can never happen without consent of the people governing the industry mandeep on May 17 2006, 02:04pm Reply
As long as there is money to be made there will always be someone ready to exploit the possibilities.
A similar principle applies when there is no money to be made. ICANN's lack of a profit margin means that there is no motivation to support customer satisfaction as is a common problem with any non-profit corporation. This issue is only further extended by the fact that ICANN is the single source for the popular and profitable registrations. There is neither immediate nor long-term need to satisfy anyone.
The final issue is the lack of legal regulation online, which is viewable by two perspectives.
1) Lack of internet regulation creates a generally free marketplace that is not governed by the same restrictions that brick and mortar corporations face. This allows individuals the ability to easily create a thriving business.
2) Lack of internet regulation creates a breeding ground for those who would take advantage of unethical methods of doing business.
It comes down to the fact that if someone is not making money then there is usually no motivation stop unethical issues. ICANN will not help because they do not see benefit in doing so. The government will not step in because they see no benefit in doing so (they do not tax internet transactions uniformly). Being creatures that act solely on personal benefit (Immanuel Kant), I cannot see light at the end of this tunnel yet.
Apparently those enabling "Domain Kiting" just don't get it. Really, first its not in their business interest to repetitively enable the vast bulk of issuing names to bogus registration. Why? Well, the public confidence in their operation slips, the call for regulation and legal control follows but on a fundamental level —- they lose a profit, its an opportunity cost minus the opportunity.
RentNet.Org supports GoDaddy in Domain name responsibility.
YOU GO BOB —Kick'um in the ass. Keep up the good work. It will change.
~R Richard, the renegade banker (http://www.renegadebanker.com) on May 17 2006, 07:43am Reply
This also relates to an article Bob wrote a couple of months ago about
.eu registrations and the "landgrabbing" by speculators. If professionals online now can't get good domain names how are China and Russia going to respond as their online communities grow? It might seem ludicrous now, but we could end up with a Chinese worldwideweb and Russian worldwideweb. They have the resources and the programmers to go it alone (or maybe they'll just join the club and become the world's best kiters!) Martin Luxton (http://www.martinrockscrikey.com) on May 16 2006, 02:21pm Reply
...and China has enough money (spent by American Businesses there) to do exactly what you say they may do Martin.
I was suspecting this, but there is another irregularity everyone can check:
Take a name that is about to be released soon, such as my complex and usual name (demoulinskaya) owned by a deceased uncle. Who the hell would be interested in that domain name?
Can we agree that my defunct uncle was not about to renew this name? He made the mistake of taking the password with him in his grave when he died ... too bad!
.
So, I interrogated the system many times when it was about to be released and guess what happened when it should have been released... The grace period last six months instead of one.
Suddenly, someone else had bought it and was offering $10K to sell it to me.
Can we suspect that someone was trapping the requests and make statistics about domain names "asked" on the ICANN system to purchase them and resell those frequently asked?
Who the hell would be interested in a complex and unusual name except me?
I only made the mistake of asking each day about its release.
IF SOMEONE FILTERS AND FILES OUR REQUESTS TO RESELL THEM AT A MUCH HIGHER PRICE, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE SYSTEM IS NOT HONEST?
How can you explain that the domain name was released a few months later?
Since then, I changed my mind and am not interested anymore. desmoulins on May 16 2006, 08:28am Reply
Bob, this is fantasic info- why can't ICANN hammer these guys?? becker on May 16 2006, 08:13am Reply
Dear becker,
ICANN does absolutely nothing unless it is forced to do so. The big question here then is — who will force ICANN to act?
Simple Question Bob, who and how could it be stopped?
I think Google, Yahoo and the major search engines are the only powers that can make it know longer worth doing, as you said the "Cash Register" will quit ringing.
This is ALL ABOUT search isn't it Bob? Some people steal a pen at work others rob banks....thats what is happening here it seems? Robert Wallinban (http://DomainKiting.com) on May 17 2006, 09:55pm Reply
Dear Robert,
There's no doubt about it, it's search engine links that makes domain kiting work — but it goes way beyond that. There's nothing wrong with putting search engine links on a web page. The problem here is allowing a loop hole so that kiters can use domain names and not pay for them — that's the problem. Twomey and the gang at ICANN that can't seem to shoot straight should be able to clean this up in an evening. Why they won't is mystifying.
Now I see the light. I used to wonder why someone would find it so profitable registering all those common names (thus me unable to get one) and just put those non sense ads links. This needs to stop.
Thanks Mr Parsons. BB on May 16 2006, 06:03am Reply
How is it that Kenyatech can see domains people search for on GoDaddy and then register those domains themselves? Is this a shady practice on the part of GoDaddy, or someone upstream? I've read elsewhere that they may be one of GoDaddy's affilliates. David Carroll on May 16 2006, 04:28am Reply
Dear David,
Kenyatech is not affiliated in any way with Go Daddy. To the best of our knowledge there is no way that they can see domain names that are searched for on Go Daddy.com or any other registrar. The only way that this could be the case would be if VeriSign would be providing them with this information and I seriously hope that that is not the case.
I completely agree that the domain kiting practice must stop. It is giving a horrifically biased advantage to certain fraudulent registrars and meaning the average domain trader has a near impossible task to compete, not to mention the millions of dollars being 'borrowed', unregulated due to this loophole. I assume the five-day refund period masquerades as a grace period for people who 'accidentally' register a typo, or a domain they do not want, but surely the realistic number of times this happens is pityful in comparison to the number of names being 'kited'. The 5 day refund must be revoked! Chris (http://www.3characterdomain.com) on May 16 2006, 03:18am Reply
a. I belive in the power of customers. Not to mention the power of court.
All you have to do is to drop an email to google adsense which is the primary money-provider for the kiting companies. Complain to them about those companies and give examples to their ad sites.
Also remind google their latest visit to court about the click-fraud where they had to pay 90 mil $.
b. My own expirience is with OREGONNAMES which is a kiting company which grab sites in the scheme bob described
http://oregonnames.com/
c. As mentioned before to get the real dimensions of the problem give a visit to
http://www.dailychanges.com
d. To Godaddy - i I enjoy your services, but please update your names DB more often so the backordering service will actually give reults.
Thanks!
Debby Debra Michilas on May 16 2006, 01:41am Reply
Hi Bob,
I don't know if you're still responding to posts this far down (#50), but I have a question for you...
Is the amount of time between every 5 day period (the point where the kiters "drop" the name and then re register it) instantaneous, or is it long enough that someone who had backordered it on GoDaddy or Pool or who had a powerful enough setup to try and grab their own "drops" could register it out from under them?
If you do respond to this - thanks!
(thanks anyway for the article!)
George George (http://www.heygeek.com) on May 15 2006, 07:19pm Reply
What if they changed it from 5 day period to, say, 2 day period?
It would at least make more work for the kiting and as a result could make it less cost effective? DK on May 19 2006, 08:08am Reply
Dear DK,
There's no doubt about it, that change would certainly knock a lot of the profitability out of the process. However I think there are better ways to fix the problem.
I wonder why someone in all this chitchat doesn't say, well, hell, I understand Richard Rosenblatt and his Great Dominions has been active in this field of domain buying,why don't we ask him, him being a serial entrepreneur who made millions out of the recent MySpace sale, savvy guy like that, he'd probably know something about kiting, having connections to Superdudes and gaming outfits such as that? No? Maybe check with some other people with names in the game? Dare to be nosy? Al MacLeee, Hallowell Maine and in the book. Alan MacLeese (http://none) on May 22 2006, 03:29pm Reply
Dear George,
It's always possible to snag a name or two away from a kiter. The problem is that kiters often use groups of registrars to get their domains kind of like wolf packs so they are very successful in getting the domain names they cancel back.
DirectNIC is behind more than just domain kiting. I believe this is only a small part of their scammings. I believe that directnic abuses their registrar status and does domain kiting on domains that are searched for in the whois services. I believe that they take the domain for a few days, and if there's a lot of traffic to that domain, they give it to their alleged front company kenyatech.com. Kenyatech is thinly-veiled front company for directnic.
I've had that experience with whois and kenyatech. A couple of weeks ago, I checked out a bunch of domains via the linux whois command, and rechecked the free ones a few days later, and all of them were registered to kenyatech.
I agree that "kiting" is an extremely dishonest practice, but, i'm sure your development team is more than capable of tracking the organizations that are doing this. Why not eliminate the ability for someone to re-purchase a "returned" domain name for a certain period of time. Department stores have been practicing this sort of thing for ages. How is a domain name purchase much more different than that?
Wow Bob - I am shocked by this! What does your office in Washington say? Can they do anything? I must say, Godaddy is really great, I love you guys, Bob, I saw that Directnic charges $15.00 - I'll be honest, I would pay you $15.00 and more just for the great service you offer. Sometimes I feel as though you don't charge enough, but then someone told me you make money on the websites I register and park. So just to make you a little more money, I've been clicking on the link Please keep us posted with what your connections in Washington can do. Can you create a petition and post it on the internet?
Good work! Jim ali the cybergoat Jim on May 17 2006, 01:25pm Reply
Unfortunately, this and other scams are taking the Internet towards Governmetn regulation. Who wants that? NOT ME!!! It only opens the floodgates to additional government taxation to pay for regulations that won't work or the scammers will just find ways around it. WE THE PEOPLE need to stop this and WE CAN! STOP DOING BUSINESS WITH THESE COMPANIES! Even if you only have one domain name registered with a scammer, if everyone simply went elsewhere, these companies would go out of business. Mark on May 16 2006, 11:37am Reply
Uh . . . which government is going to regulate it? Common misconception. The US is not the only country that uses the Internet and other countries don't have to follow US law.
Some of the biggest domainers doing this are in Korea and Russia. So the US can't regulate it. ICANN can make an attempt but won't if it isn't in the best interest or the special interest groups that pull their strings.
and do you really want the government stepping in to regulate this? as you so aptley stated - which government could be in charge when this is a global issue? JD Wiggs (http://www.jdwiggs.us) on May 28 2006, 08:34pm Reply
Mark, your suggestion works, in theory...but, unfortunately not enough people are aware of 'kiting' nor the registrars who facilitate the practice. World-wide, there are millions upon millions of individuals who may seek to register a domain name, but even in 'knowing' about this scam...generally, the average Joe remains too lazy and/or just plainly unconcerned to 'act' in any meaningful manner.
Already feeling somewhat 'oppressed' by our governments long reach...you are right...we do not want them pulling the strings; it would be just another thing they would screw up...
what gains ICANN with Kiting? Jordi on May 15 2006, 12:12pm Reply
Once upon a time, people did business (often very big business indeed) quickly and cheaply, with nothing more than a verbal agreement and a handshake. After a while, some of those people began to abuse the rest of the community by not keeping their word. This meant that people had to employ lawyers and accountants merely to try and ensure proper dealings between themselves. The increased costs that ensued resulted in that community losing its competitive edge, and joining a larger, less effective community offering poorer quality services at higher prices. That community was called Lloyds of London, and this happened during the last 25 years. Now, it appears that the 'net is being sucked ever-deeper into a similarly costly and even more unpleasant existence. It doesn't take a rocket-scientist to visualize that one possible outcome is the eventual demise of the 'net as it falls into the hands of the wretched creatures that dream-up and execute plans such as domain-kiting, justifying their actions with a shrug and a comment along the lines of 'if I don't somone else will'. How far away from spammers and porn-peddlars are they? What can the public do to help prevent them, and others like them from continuing to degrade standards of behaviour?
Regards
Tim Tim Challenor on May 15 2006, 11:19am Reply
Great response to the 'kiting' issue, Tim... The darkened scope of effects produced by peoples greed and dishonesty are clearly evident in ways you have pointed out.
My mother raised me with the words, "most people are good..." an ideology that took far too long for me to realize as flawed. She meant well I'm sure, but she was also raised in the 1930's, in a quaint New England town, married right after High School to begin a life of cooking, cleaning and having babies...without much time to test her belief in human nature.
Regarding people...'good' may be a term that has developed into a very loose definition of the word; honesty and integrity seems not to enter into the equation.
Regards,
RagMag.org
Cremlin (http://RagMag,org) on May 19 2006, 10:30am Reply
Domain kiting, it seems to me, is an outgrowth of the incentive systems in place to pay for exposure to as many eyeballs as possible. Change the incentives and behaviors will change. The world wide web is being abused.....but much of the abuse can be stopped by choking off the rewards for doing so. Ed Hare on May 15 2006, 11:13am Reply
How about take away or shorten the 5 day grace period, or charge 50% restocking fee to return the domain name during the 5 day grace.
Your restocking suggestion makes perfect since. Of course, the real problem is that the fox (ICANN) is in charge of the hen house.
Best regards,
Bruce M Bruce M on May 19 2006, 07:34am Reply
I believe that such a practice shoudl be put to a Full Stop, without any further delay. Its causing a hefty damage to the society because its not what technology is supposed to be supporting.. Mike (http://www.yellowcomp.com) on May 15 2006, 09:02am Reply
I too am coming across more n more of these sites. A name I have desired has been held up this way for the 2-3 years I've been tracking it. Tov (http://phenomi.net/Blog/weblog.php) on May 15 2006, 07:25am Reply
How can we stop this problem when Google is doing the following:
http://www.google.com/domainpark/ Jay on May 14 2006, 08:44pm Reply
Jay, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I checked out the page and was shocked to see this - Google should be ashamed - they say they only place ads on site with relevant content and now we see that this is not true! What a charade! Hipocrite is the word I think that applies to this type of situation. Makes me wonder if a number of other big companies are getting into the act of kiting.
Kudos Bob - keep up the pressure and get this stopped.
I always wondered why those many domains that I wanted were not available for registry - now I know they are probably being, in some way, stolen from me. John (http://www.artcolombia.com) on May 17 2006, 04:43pm Reply
Here is another (disgusting) variant on the scam.
Companies will sit on domains using the 5-day trick, waiting for someone who wants the domain to buy it from them.
I had a look at www.roddi.com, which has been "recently acquired" by pool.com. Their website gives me the opportunity to "backorder" it from them. And of course roddi.com is just a single page packed with search engine links.
Directnic is not just responsible of domain kiting. Sigmund Solares has been using his companies (Directnic is just one of them) to cybersquat domains, and then ask their owners hundreds, sometimes thousands, of dollars to give them back. As a cover, he's using a fake company, kenyatech.com, with a fake address in Kenya. And while the anticybersquatting act forbids this practice, Solares is obviously counting on the fact that for most people it's too expensive to sue him (I spoke with an attorney with plenty of experience in cybersquatting, who told me taking him to court would cost $50 - 60K) and that Icann is incompetent and won't stop him.
That Sigmund Solares is still in charge of domain registrars is as ridiculous as having a known pedophile as a third-grade teacher. Sigmund Solares is a thief, and I urge people not to do business with him or any of his companies.
These guys are mainly profiting from Google AdSense ads. If the same domain names are being continuously recycled for harvesting clicks like this, then one thing to do is to "encourage" Google to take action against them. Of course, Google profits from their actions as well, so there's not much they're going to do.
However, if someone were to start a "registry" of these out-of-sight domain names, and then some tools were brought to bear where people could go through and start clicking links on these pages like crazy, Google might take notice as there would be what amounts to a surge of click fraud. Google's actions in these matters are usually to ban the domains from using their services, both AdSense and from being listed in their search engines. And it's not a 5-day ban, but much longer. Thus, the incentive to keep re-registering these names would very quickly disappear.
If this "attack" is kept up long enough, Google would be forced to take action to eliminate these scumbags at the outset, as AdWords advertisers would protest like crazy.
Also, the "registry" that's created could be made available to AdWords advertisers for them to use in their "excluded domain" list. david on May 14 2006, 01:02pm Reply
This problem could be solved easily by eliminating the 5 day refund policy. No refund, sale is final. The check Kiting is killed by the online transfer. You write a check to a bank, the check clears your account the same day. Let us get the five day refund rule cancelled. Abraham on May 14 2006, 12:17pm Reply
Perfect. You hit the nail on the head. No grace period is the way to go.
Yes, many millions of domains are registered each month, but how many of them are actually domains that someone would want?
For example, if we are talking about a website called (for example) 'freemoney.com', then possibly lots of people would want it if it became available. However, names used for spamming may be called something like 'ewyqeryvbq.com' (hardly memorable, is it?). So we need to sort the wheat from the chaff and properly evaluate the real impact of 'kiting'.
I doubt if ICANN would think it worth their while pursuing the issue of obscure domain names, but protecting the right of the free marketplace and ensuring the availability of desired names is a different issue.
I agree with the comments made about ICANN. The so-called 'Ombudsman' at ICANN (last time I checked), is a former Canadian Mountie. Seems the guy gave up his horse to join a lot of horse's asses.
Having personally dealt with the gentleman in question, you would assume he knew how to deal with such people. But it appears he doesn't.
Perhaps the biggest horse's ass at ICANN is ICANN (collectively) itself. As long as this ass keeps crapping copious quantities of ill-gotten dollar bills, they are not going to plug it - are they?
Oh well, that's life. There is a lot wrong with the world we live in, and kiting is but one of the crimes that will continue to go unpunished.
I'm not sure, but is ICANN's quarter dollar registration fee refundable? If it's not, why would they stop the process? Think about all of the money they are making? 32 million domains in a month times $0.25 is 8 million dollars. Looks like a cash cow for ICANN to me. I've been following Bob's progress in the good fight against the ineptitude at ICANN for years.
Another good reason to revoke the 5 day refund is that plenty of scams use domains like htrvytvrvfv.org - if they have to pay for them it adds a marginal increase to the cost of scamming.
one way to stop kiting is to limit the 5 days they have to drop the name to 24hrs. they won't have time to load and drop so many names. and there would not be any profit in it. mdb on May 14 2006, 09:15am Reply
Here is the link to reach:U.S. Congressional Internet Caucus: Membership in the 109th Congress
Click here: www.netcaucus.org/members/
I am printing the blog from Mr. Parsons and MAILING it to these Senators and my State Representatives and I strongly suggest you so the same. ANYTHING SENT VIA USPS IS NOW SO UNUSUAL, THAT IT WILL MERIT ACTUAL ATTENTION. Otherwise, you will receive the form letter like the one sent by Orrin Hatch and received by #10 Tyler (http://www.2dzyne.com) on May 12 2006. ICANN will wait until these hucksters acquire all domains of any value, initiate a system overhaul and take all of the credit and approbation for making the improvements protecting all of us! Hah!
Bob, will you please be clear to explain that not ALL parked pages are bad. I am in agreement that this 5 day add drop stuff is out of control... But I "own" a portfolio of names, that I park. Parking is legitimate when the people coming to a site to find a specific amoubnt of information find links from advertisers that are relevant to what they want... It is basically just another form of "search." If it isn't working the advertisers would not pay for the clicks.
The problem we are into is the Registrars using a loophole to get basically FREE domains if even for a short amount of time. I have paid over 100,000 dollars for a good keyword domain and these guys get millions for FREE. Cliff Domain on May 14 2006, 07:30am Reply
Dear Cliff,
Of course what you do is legitimate. You actually register and pay for your domains. You are not involved in kiting.
I am a Domain reseller/developer with GoDaddy and another (whom as courtesy to Godaddy i wont name here) i pay for every domain i own and above the registration for most as they are up for auctions.I use some of those link pages at some of the underconstruction sites(but not all)to help defer costs as do all the registrars/resellers far as i know its unfair to say all those are illegitimate but though i think the DomainKiting is a sort of a Registrar Perk, i think it should be regulated somehow.With todays technology you would think they could tag a domain for a 3 (Strikes=not registered for more than 5 days in a given calender year ) its out for open registration this would actually satisfy both sides a bit id think.Registrars I'm sure know which Domains get what traffic before they become available anyway its unfair to let them Glom(collect and hold all for free) them all when the rest of us use our hard cash with gut feelings and creative talents to try and develop domains and i think it also causes more UDRP cases for we the little guy who buys from them thinking its free and clear but apparently they use these to Kite the Infringing Domains as well and since the trademark owners cant track them down since they are in the Domain Shell game i think is more appropriate they sell these to people.who go to develop them only to find that now since its actually registered for a use they come legal guns ablazing.So we get nabbed for Legal fees to prove no bad faith and development time and costs wasted as well.The INTERNET is truly the wild west and though it needs to be free of REDTAPE BUREAUCRATIC shenanigans there needs to be more BUYER protection in whats sold as well as domain availability in the first place so if we need to spend our cash for our domains they should have to spend theirs as well. Gene Heu (http://www.CrazyTroll.com) on May 14 2006, 05:19am Reply
Excellent article Bob, it really explains now why some of the domains i have tried to get in the past have had those lame landing pages. Keep up the good fight! Greg Kiernan (http://everybody-knows.com) on May 14 2006, 03:54am Reply
I registered attackonamerica.com, several hours after the attacks on 9/11. It was to be a blog site where people could talk about what was happening, share ideas, grieve, and comfort other people. An up to the minute human account of that horrible day. I had the domain for a week, or so I thought, but when I went to publish the site, I could not set the dns. Someone had stolen the domain. How could that have happened? kmS. on May 14 2006, 03:22am Reply
You must be fooling yourself if you thought you registered attackonamerica.com and it was stolen from you. I'm the real owner from time of the attacks. So please curb your rumor. I actually had the registrar lock the domain cause they were getting attacks from hackers to try and take the name. Currently attackonamerica.com has undergone changes and will be published again shortly. We had a great memorial online for a few years but information has surfaced and the truth will now be published. Vern Rasmussen (http://attackonamerica.com) on Aug 27 2006, 11:31am Reply
i was shoked
my responce is- find those kiters and stop them!
i am always disappointed when i try to find domain name.
i thought i was every time too late. now i understand why.
thank you for your discovery. nissim (http://www.nesiba.com) on May 14 2006, 02:42am Reply
Perhaps GoDaddy can try to track legitimate requests for domain names that are tied up in this scam, to provide a legal grounds and financial incentive for stopping the practice.
if the domain names "steered and grabbed" in this manner are in fact impeding legitimate business, it will be the responsibility of the controlling bodies to perform their function. Shawn on May 13 2006, 09:51pm Reply
Perhaps GoDaddy can try to track legitimate requests for domain names that are tied up in this scam, to provide a legal grounds and financial incentive for stopping the practice.
if the domain names "steered and grabbed" in this manner are in fact impeding legitimate business, it will be the responsibility of the controlling bodies to perform their function.
Create and give them some ammunition... Shawn on May 13 2006, 09:48pm Reply
Absolutely horrible!! I cannot fathom how these people sleep at night! no wonder it took me 4 or 5 searches to get my domain name what I wanted it to be without it already being taken.
There is another issue at work here. It may have been mentioned previously and I missed it.
Some of the pages I've seen have Google AdSense ads on them. Legit AdSense publishers complain to Google about it all the time because it's supposed to be against the AdSense terms. But every time someone clicks on one of the ads, Google makes money. So not only are the registrars making money, so is Google.
Also, there was an article recently in Business 2.0 magazine recently that detailed people who were making millions of dollars per year simply by putting up pages with ads on them and waiting for people to type in the URL and click on ads.
I guess they have figured out a way to see which domains get a good amount of traffic and they just let the others go back and get a refund.
I think a strong argument can be made that these "domain kiters" as you call them are actually defrauding the advertisers paying money for the clicks. Hence, it is a form of click fraud, which is illegal.
If you want to stop the practice, you should send FedEx letters to the Federal Trade Commission, the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California (where Google, Verisign, and Yahoo are located), and the California Attorney General. Explain to them what is happening.
You might also consider filing a civil suit against those same companies, ICANN, and others involved alleging fraud, etc., and seeking damages in the billions (considering their market cap) plus injunctive relief.
Once they have to answer to Wall Street, I think those companies will do something about this. Eric on May 13 2006, 06:14pm Reply
Just after reading this article I discovered, that a domain I wanted to buy was used for kiting. I run a website nfstuning.com. Couple months after registering it I found that someone registered nfstuning.net. One year has passed and I was thinking about purchasing it after expiration. It has expired, but suddenly it became registered by some company and pointed to search page just as Bob wrote. In couple days nfstuning.net suddenly became available and I registered it. The fact, that domain was available only couple days later after registration, shows that I have saw what you call domain kiting...
Thanks, Bob, for posting this interesting article. Gytis (http://www.autonews.lt) on May 13 2006, 12:59pm Reply
I am disappointed to learn about DirectNICs complicity with or involvement in this practice, and also to read the other comments about them here.
I've done business with them for several years and always been happy with their service and domain control webapp. I have about fifty domains registered through them. I was impressed with their resilience during the Katrina disaster, and I would very much still like to believe better of them.
I'm willing to pay $15/yr for domain registration to a company whose business practices are above-board. (I'm not willing to pay double that to the evil cretins at Network Solutions, who can't even seem to build a simple webapp with all of their ill-gotten revenue).
I'm seriously considering moving my domains away from DirectNIC now. I don't care so much about the cost savings, but I do care about feeling like I'm contributing to the problem. It's difficult to leave a vendor after years of flawless service, but this sort of thing is very offensive to me.
I understand that this practice is perfectly legal, but it is an abuse of trust, and an abuse of power. I don't like anything about the way ICANN works, or the way the telcos want the Internet to work in the future...and I don't like manipulation of the domain registration system.
I realize my protests are futile. Certainly DirectNIC wouldn't miss my ~thousand dollars of annual revenue (including several SSL certs), but regardless, the problems with our Internet run much deeper than a few opportunistic vultures at registrars.
I have always suspected this to happen but have no data - Bob, do you know?
What I always do is type the name directly into the browser - I do not think this would alert anyone? But nowadays it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a meaningful name htat is not being kept from me.
DirectNIC appears to be behind a scam doing something similar to this. there is evidence to suggest that they abuse their registrar status to take domains that are expiring, and to take domains that are searched for and are available. Evidence suggests that they are behind the front company Kenyatech.
Evidence of this can be found at the following sites:
www.rootfest.net/squatters.html
www.kenyatechwatch.com I Dislike DirectNIC on May 13 2006, 12:03am Reply
And probably a WHOLE LOT MORE. MIKE on May 17 2006, 08:51pm Reply
Domain Kiting MUST be put to an end! A relative of mine tried obtaining his name to put up his artwork. At Go Daddy and other registrars, the name was unavailable. However, at one registrar, the name was available. We had been tracking the domain's every movement.
After weeks of tracking and researching the registrars, we found out that one of the popular registrars had been moving the domain around - and I mean around the globe.
So after running a domain availability and finding out that the domain WAS available for registration, we starting following up on Bob's "ADD/DROP" blogs.
Domain kiting sets back business, but at the same time makes other names valuable - I believe. Edwin Henderson on May 12 2006, 09:31pm Reply
I new something like this must be happening; as I've been "cheated" out of domains that I have back-ordered - only to have them "tied-up" by these domain kiting companies .... keep us informed, as to what we can do to stop this ... Larry on May 12 2006, 06:53pm Reply
How do the kiters make money when someone clicks on their kited domain? Paul on May 12 2006, 06:10pm Reply
To be more clear on what Bob said, they have affiliate accounts (like Google AdSense) with different companies, mostly search engines so whenever someone uses a link, money is made. Joseph A Nagy Jr (http://blog.joseph-a-nagy-jr.us) on May 15 2006, 06:30am Reply
They are in bed with a certain someone at Google. They're also in bed with ICANN. Sh*thead Solares, CEO of DirectNIC and the dozen or so questionable front-companies he operates was/is on the board of directors at ICANN. They're also very close with "Mr. Internet" who is on the board and close advisor at Google.
You nor I could get into the Google AdSense program for a web page with NO CONTENT like the ones DirectNIC steals and puts up there. No one could but them. MIKE on May 17 2006, 08:57pm Reply
Dear Paul,
The way it works is that they put up a web page for the kited domain name. On that web page there are many search engine links. If someone lands on the web page and clicks on one of the links — the cash register rings.
I emailed Dr. Dork myself. I think it's an f-ing joke that they don't do something about this. I have attempted to get domains often and come up on these fake sites more often than I care to mention.
So the next time i want to register a domain name and i see that it's taken but when i visit it and see one of these types of pages would i be able to backorder it and snatch it up in a day or two? Would that essentially beat these "domain kiters" at their own game? Rick (http://www.rickpinney.com) on May 12 2006, 03:35pm Reply
You know why ICANN will not do anything about it? If 32 million domain names were "kited" last month, it means that kiters have deposited at least $192 millions to ICANN for this purpose ... this brings them about $10 millions in interest annually ... if they stop this practice, they'll loose this easy income. Even if they start billing $0.25 per domain refunded -as you suggested in your previous post- all kiters will instantly go away and they'll loose those $10M ... Despite, this being a tiny amount of money, they are so unwilling to let it go ... Ahmad on May 12 2006, 01:44pm Reply
Excellent article, I never knew the reason why all these links pages appeared. I tried to get my domain name for 2 years and when it finally became available, it immediately got taken and turned into a link page.
Luckily when it was dropped, I managed to grab it.
I had just a similar experience as you. Edwin henderson on May 12 2006, 09:34pm Reply
I too have been paying close attention to this issue. I have had several people call in the past few weeks saying that the domain that wanted was registered by someone else and that they (the newco) is asking upwards of $25.00 per year to register the same domain. I will continue to do my part to assist in whatever way(s) that I can.
BTW, if you're interested, I did receive a letter back from one of my my Senators. I have posted it here for your viewing...
I wouldn't expect too much from him. He's already owned by the MPAA and RIAA, I'm sure ICANN can purchase his opinion too. Keep in mind, he was for the RIAA to put out software to destroy files on your computer.
Anonymous Coward (http://none) on May 13 2006, 10:24pm Reply
The registry must be making a large amount of interest by investing the millions of dollars that have been deposited by the registrars? Dave on May 12 2006, 11:49am Reply
I think what is also important is that the reason this kiting scheme works is that the people who are browsing the web come across these harvested/kited webpages, THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY CLICK ON THE LINKS! What are these people THINKING!? If you do not click on the links, the schemers don''t make money. IF they don't make money, the laws of supply and demand state that they will stop the kiting and keeping the control of these domains out of the people who are actually willing to trade value for value for the domain names. Please, don't reward their bad behaviour by clicking on the links on these webpages. Afterall, they're just ads, anyway. Guru Dudette (http://www.Traders-Talk.com) on May 12 2006, 11:34am Reply
You are confusing the issue — just because a page is parked doesn't mean someone is doing something tricky — and this isn't "domain kiting". Andrew (http://www.domainnamewire.com) on May 13 2006, 10:18pm Reply
Bob,
I think you've uncovered the "naked shorting" of the domain name game. Same concept making money off something that you don't own, have rights to, or doesn't even exist.
Take a read of this guy's website. There are a number of folks like yourself that aren't afraid to step up and say something about the games.
Why the governing institutions we have in place to do the "policing of the fleecing" can't/won't do their job is a scary thing to ponder...it makes you wonder how much graft and/or ignorance there is in these systems that are suppose to be fair playing fields.
Wow, I had no idea how these companies could have perpetrated this level of a scheme given the costs associated with domain registration. Thanks for explaining this so clearly.
It's really hard to say which practice I hate more, domain squatting or domain kiting. Both keep good domains out of the hands of people that might do something with them. I guess it would have to be kiting because it's so underhanded. At least with a squatter, there's a chance to obtain the domain yourself if you're willing to pay the price. Bill Brown (http://www.bbrown.info) on May 12 2006, 10:34am Reply
Someone really has to explain to people what cybersquatting is. Cybersquatting is not the practice of buying domain names intending to sell them for a profit. That is called domain name speculation and is perfectly legit.
Cybersquatting is registering "trademarked" company names and attempting to keep the TM holder from having it or trying to extort money from the TM holder to purchase the name or making money, profiting from the use of someone else's trademarked name.
There are as many definitions of the terms you describe as there are people interpreting them. "Squatting" and "speculation" are separated only by the base response each word elicits. I would argue that, in the context of what is written here, they are the same thing or close enough in concept to be construed as the same. These practices may not be illegal at present, but they are ethically questionable at best. I personally go out of my way not to conduct business with anyone who behaves in this manner because it would simply be a matter of time before they screwed you, too. Michael McConnell on May 26 2006, 12:29pm Reply
It's time to analyze the data one more step. How many of the 32.7 million where then re-registered soon after they were dropped? Thus giving the flim flammers a perpetual domain name without ever having to pay the registrar or ICANN. Michael on May 12 2006, 09:24am Reply
There must be some additional scheme in effect - a simple 'hold for five days' wouldn't be long enough for any significant traffic to be directed by the search engines - in the case of my legitimate domains, it is several days after I submit the site to the search engines that the SE spider begins to feed on my pages - it is weeks - sometimes months before these pages are indexed and still longer for them to be 'ranked' high enough to pull in the kind of traffic that these schemers seek.
It is true that with skillful keyword manipulation you can rank a page well in a shorter time but the basic delay for beginning the spider scan and the initial indexing is fairly constant.
Also, the magnitude of automated site-building traffic that these schemers must generate to just tread water must be enormous and quite expensive.
The page doesn't have to be indexed for someone to type the name of the page in their browser, land on it and click on one of the links. This is what happens the vast majority of the time. Very seldom, perhaps never are the pages involved in domain kiting indexed by the search engines.
I very much enjoy the weekly radio show. I have a question and hope the answer is an uneqivocal NO...but here it is: Do you accept any compensation and/or consideration from the individuals and businesses you highlight on the weekly radio show? Again I hope the answer is "no." I ask because your questions for many of these individuals / businesses are very much soft ball questions (feels more like a commercial than a objective interview). For example, Netflix recently got in trouble for misleading consumers about the claim of "unlimited" rentals because if you were a high volume renter, you were unknowingly put at the back of the line for additional DVDs. Again, I enjoy your radio show but would ask that you take a more detailed look at these companies and individuals...in this way, we all can learn more.
Thanks again and keep up the good work. J J on May 12 2006, 12:39am Reply
Dear J.,
You are right. The answer is an absolute "NO!" We receive nothing from the guests on Life On Line.
And you're right, I don't badger them or try to put them on the spot. What I try to do is let them tell their story. Sometimes even this doesn't work, for example when I had the Golden Palace as a guest and their spokesperson thought I was setting them up for a smack when I asked them if their odds were different from those of a land based casino. But that's just Life On Line I guess. <g>
This sucks, but it is true that it takes money to make money. Right now, it appears they are capitalizing on the system — which is the American Way. ICANN will wait until the big boys suck up all the domains of value, then change the system and take credit for making improvements in the industry. Sure, it's a joke... same joke all large businesses embark on though. The good news is that anyone can still buy domain names, and what is a popular name today is not an indication of what will be a popular name tomorrow. Toddw (http://ToddsPC.com) on May 12 2006, 12:20am Reply
Its time you did something for your customers and we will overcome and maybe you and us can still make a few bucks again.
Can you help us become a part of the Domain buyers and users of the internet AGAIN! As you peace (piece) spells out we have been TRUMPED!
Remember, you are the guy that got us buying domains, now lets keep it that way.
Of course they are. Ask Sigmund Solares why ICANN wouldnt be happy - they're in bed with each other. mike on May 11 2006, 10:33pm Reply
I am landing more and more on the sites that you mention in this article. I am so glad to hear someone else complain and to be informed of the rest of the story.
I think Google should do something about it as well. I'm surprised they haven't. I find web page after page with just ad links on them, very little content.
You're right Scott, I was confusing the issue. I obviously was confusing the proliferation of pure paid link sites with little or no content on them but a bunch of links, that I think are really cluttering up the internet (search) at this point.
Don't confuse the issues. People owning domains and kiting them as Bob speaks of are seperate issues.
People can own domains and do what ever they like with them. Mr. Parsons issue is that they are taking advantage of a loop hole in the system to do so without paying. scott horne (http://web-professor.net) on May 12 2006, 01:30pm Reply
Yes, there's nothing wrong with parking a web page. In fact, GoDaddy probably has more parked pages than anyone else (it's just customers domains being parked). Andrew (http://www.domainnamewire.com) on May 13 2006, 10:16pm Reply
Use a robot script to crawl these domains and click their links like mad. Yes, the kiters would initially profit from these ad clicks and potentially stick with the domains they have past the five day grace believing them to be genuine hits but actually they will stop when the domains have been purchased. This however is not the biggest bullet for this solution... Google will suffer massively and they will have to take action. Okay the kiters may be immoral businesses but the big fish behind this problem and the reason why people do it, is because of Google. Google needs to suffer and re-think it's terms and conditions when it comes to allowing where ads can be placed. Goggle is responsible for the millions of spam adsense sites out there and there not willing to do anything about it because it's holding up their ad network. This is the same company who publicly claim to be fighters of internet spam, the same company who's very foundations are based on providing relevant (spam free) search results.
richard reeve (http://realitybomb.com) on Apr 17 2010, 08:53am Reply
How can we have Democracy on the web? stop monopoly?
There's hope out there, http://Uoha.Com is Offering free websites and subdomains for small business people! Uoha.com I a very nice Business Social Networking website, Check it out!
Websites & subdomains (http://uoha.com) on Apr 27 2009, 04:58pm Reply
christopher (http://christophereaddy.com) on May 24 2008, 08:30am Reply
One thing i can guarantee there is some money going from the kiters to ICANN or people who influence ICANN under the table.
Very corrupt system. ICANN might as well set up head offices in the middle of Central Africa. They'll feel right at home.
Marko Jakovljevic on Sep 21 2007, 08:37am Reply
I did a few searches for a domain name over a period of two days. Shortly thereafter it was tasted by a Cybersquatter company before I was able to purchase it (Lesson learned - I should have purchased it immediately). I waited 5 days to see if they'd drop it and they did. To be safe, while waiting, I backordered the domain through GoDaddy (as I have two domains registered with your company). Sadly, the backorder didn't work and it was picked up by Melbourne IT. I stunned me until I realized I inadvertently backordered the domain name through their Names by Request service. Not too bright (I'm new to the world of domain "ownership"
james on Feb 28 2007, 03:34pm Reply
Myles Agnew (http://www.mylesagnew.com) on Apr 4 2007, 07:13pm Reply
Alex (http://www.special-dictionary.com) on Feb 19 2007, 09:09pm Reply
Deek Ennis (http://www.ibuildstar.com) on Feb 13 2007, 11:18am Reply
It should be coined "Domain Name Ransom" because:
In the market there are less Trade Marks issued than there are Domain Names because to register a TM (especially on a global basis) costs significantly more time and money than it does to register a domain name.
Behind every TM there is a legitimate intent or legitimate existence to protect a business.
If I am legitimate and I have an existing business then the highest protection afforded beyond a Business or Company name is the Trade Mark and hence the reasoning behind the WIPO rulings to hand back domains that infringe TMs.
The above is OK if I have an existing business... BUT.. if I locate or want to start a business with legitimate intent am I right in thinking that because some one paid $6 for a domain name they have in effect blocked a legitimate intended TM register and can hold me to "Domain Name Ransom" to pay 'After Market' prices before I can register the TM?
Regards,
Chris Hussey
PS:
My personal opinion is that a Moratorium of 6 months is held and that any and all domains that the do not have a legitimate business use beyond feeding links whether that be in the form of link-farming, domain squatting, domain kiting or are domains which have no site at all should be open to immediate removal by the register because they are in 'Bad Faith' and have the capacity to "Domain Name Ransom".
The effect and benefits of of removing 'Bad Faith' domains would be:
1. Lessen the work load on the 25,000+ cases already heard by the WIPO
2. Reduce the total cost to the legitimate intended user.
3. Decrease the strain on domain registers
4. Increase the relevance of search engines
The only exception to not enforcing handing back the "Bad Faith Domain" would be in the event that the domain owner can prove:
1. The true intent is to have such business (proved by registration of a business name, corporation or TM) and/or are or will be in the same industry class as that of the domain name and
2. That they are actively working towards a 'legitimate site' (the responsibility to check legitimacy of the site development is that of the registrar who could do so by limiting renewal to 6 months)
During and after this moratorium the domain registrar can only (re)register the domain if the intended (existing) user can prove that it is being (continues to be) acquired in Good Faith and has a legitimate business use.
Initial and post domain registration fees would of course rise to cover expenses but the total cost would decrease and total benefits increase as outlined above... making more transparent WWW.
Chris Hussey on Jan 22 2007, 06:41pm Reply
Michael Heavener (http://www.heavenr.com) on Jan 20 2009, 12:33am Reply
We know of people that try to purchase a domain but it becomes registered before they type in their credit card numbers!
alejandro lengua (http://alejandrolengua.info) on Dec 10 2006, 03:36pm Reply
Worse, they even promote it (see: http://www.google.com/domainpark/).
This weekend I checked where the paid clicks to my web shop where coming from (clicks that cost me almost $1 per click) and found that about 50% were coming from these kited sites.
(At that moment I already disabled the Google Search Network in the AdWords campaign settings, so Google considers these kind of sites even as content sites) In their reply, they admit that what they consider 'parked' sites, can be part of their content network (Where is the content I wonder?)
And if you think that this kiting practice is sick, I found an even sicker practice: Selling 404 pages to link companies.
There are hosting companies that use the 404 pages of live websites, that they host (of companies that are doing an honest business on the internet), and sell these 404 pages to link companies that are supported by Google.
This way you have a pretty defined business (of the main domain) and you can use that information to put sponsored ads of the competitors on the 404 page. I think this practice is really close to criminal.
This way everyone will make money out of the 404 page. Only the company that has the domain will see its traffic going to the competitors.
I contacted Google (it were Google ads) but according to Google it is all according to their policy. (I guess the Google policy is simple: as long as we make money and don't get arrested, we don't care)
As a Google AdWords advertiser I told them that this practice made me sick, and that I don't want to contribute to it.
They recommended me, if I still wanted to make use of there content network, that for each campaign, I just type in the domains where I don't want my ad to appear (Can someone help me type in 32 million domain names and that 4 times for the number of about 4 campaigns I run
In the wikipedia it stated that a company that held about 100,000 domains was sold for 164 million dollars (that is $1,640 per domain name).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type-in_traffic. These were probably not kited domains, but it gives you an idea how much money Google is making by keeping this practice alive. It is probably a very substantial part of the total Google revenue; I lost already $25 of my $50 budget, this weekend to these link sites.
I know that it is easy to get rules to prevent this all, but unfortunately I am not in control of these rules. For me there is only one thing I can do to stop contributing to this practice and that is to turn off the 'content' network and the search network options in my AdWords campaign settings.
It is too bad that real content sites will suffer, but I would like to ask each AdWords advertiser to do the same.
Marcel van der Vliet (http://eazyworks.com) on Nov 13 2006, 06:27pm Reply
The idea of the internet is to share information " world wide"
when you have companies stockpilng domains its end result is the destruction of the internet. You may laugh. But if Jim as an example wants to open Jims Electronics.com and its kited you have now shut down a reliable source multiply that 1000000 fold and the internet becomes a pile of useless garbage and a websites name would mean nothing.
I commend Bob, Parson for not joining the ranks of these domain thugs.
Paul, on Nov 12 2006, 04:49pm Reply
For those of you that might be trying to figure out how to get a domain away from one of the domain kiters, I have had some success in that area and I have compiled some instructions and information on the subject here:
http://www.lisasoftware.com/misc/getdomain-HOWTO.html
Best of luck,
Robbie
Robbie on Nov 11 2006, 03:51pm Reply
I'm amazed sometimes at the morons who make it to high places.
Any business person with an investing 101 certificate could figure this solution out...
REQUIRE A DIRECT DEPOSIT into an interest money market account (Kiters pay their 'deposit' — no charge cards!)
MAIL THE REFUND "refunding" their deposit with a cut check via the U.S. Postal service. ("The check is in the mail"
Each day the money would gather interest... until the check cleared.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the kiters probably don't have the kind of cash required to make the direct deposit in the first place. Endgame.
Domain kiting would halt all together. Period.
Honest domain purchases would then have a chance.
End of discussion.
They really aren't too bright, are they?
I'll forward this thread to my Congressman — author of the "Can Spam Act"
[BETTER YET: require payment via cashier's check! The domain is 'locked' until payment is received. THEN it's released. After the 'grace' period, "refund" requests must be made individually, and refund check mailed back to the registrar.
Honest people don't mind fed-ex a check to pay for the domain. Most likely they won't be asking for a refund either. But the crooks simply won't be back. They'll wander off someplace and die.]
Of course, the industry did it to itself. They made the process too automated. You should NEVER be allowed to tie up more than one domain at a time — via a unique transaction. Period. What were they thinking about ??? Who hired those idiots?
Fred Showker (http://www.user-groups.net/safenet/) on Sep 28 2006, 06:06am Reply
Heidi on Sep 15 2006, 12:23am Reply
Alex Backer
Founder, Adapt Technologies
Alex Backer (http://alexbacker.pbwiki.com) on Sep 11 2006, 01:55am Reply
I already have the engine/code that will hit a URL as many times as you like over a 24 hour period (once a minute or once and an hour). The engine looks like a browser hit and is indistinguishable from a real user (browser visit).
Feed it a list of URL's and it automatically starts monitoring URL's and sending out alerts/reports about there availability (if requested) so you know when there gone or down.
Extremely, robust, runs with no operators, architected to monitor millions of URL's simultaneously. Would definitely fix the problem.... generate site traffic and confuse the hell out of the "domain Kitters".
Fight back, expecting government to fix the problem is like watching paint dry - never happens when your looking.
Like your voice out there and your banned commercials !!
Miles on Aug 23 2006, 01:55pm Reply
Every time someone clicks on a Google-link on the page they make money. They rely on income mainly from Google. Google gets it from advertisers. It is only when enough Google-links on each page are clicked that the kiters decide to actually buy the page. If you were to trick them into keeping the page through the use of a robot (simulating clicks), advertisers would still be paying for what your robot did, up to one dollar per "click". This would only hurt advertisers.
I wonder how much Google is involved in this? They do make a lot of money from the kiting phenomenon. That is a fact.
So, would can we do?
The only thing that will work is to remove the grace period of 5 days. Nobody ever asked for it. Apparently the ICANN board did not approve of this 5-day grace period and it seems that instead some staff member of ICANN inserted it into the legal contract used between ICANN and registrars without the ICANN board knowing of it.
Now, I would be really curious as to who that person is. That is who you should all be blaiming. Was he/she payed by someone to insert the paragraphs about grace periods?
As far as I know, ICANN is discussing right now how to prevent kiting and will probably do something about it eventually. I suspect they will simply remove the grace period since nobody really asked for it in the first place.
However, even if you get rid of the kiting problem, you still have the problem of millions of useless link pages that will still be there just because they generate more than $6 per year.
A few years ago the fee was $100 per year and domain-name. Maybe that is the level we need to get back to, to get rid of all these useless pages. It would hurt, but it would benefit the users of the internet. If someone pays $100 for a domain name each year then you know he probably has some serious intention with that page.
Johan on Dec 6 2006, 04:01pm Reply
One thing Google is really good at is catching click fraud, so the vast majority of the clicks that are earning money are real.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on Dec 6 2006, 10:37pm Reply
G W Myers on Aug 23 2006, 08:43am Reply
felix steinebrunner (http://www.worldsites-schweiz.ch) on Aug 11 2006, 01:27am Reply
How can advertisers better insure that there ads aren't a part of some scam like this?
I wouldn't blame the search engines that spider these sites, it's the window of opportunity the registrars are allowed that creates this scam.
Why aren't there measures in place at ICANN on performance?
If 60% or more of your domain name registrations are being canceled, isn't that a warning sign of poor performance and perhaps that registrars should be on some sort of punishment - like limiting the number of new registrations they can order?
A legitimate registrant would produce cancellation numbers that you've pointed out.
It's not good for the unknowing advertisers who's links are being used.
Even if they were GoogleAds, how is Google to handle this fraud if it's difficult for the users to report.
When I accidentally land on a page that's an Ad Link farm I usually leave, but some aren't so obvious because of content. I've come across this while searching for graphics or other content for webpages.
Yahoo, MSN and Google are actively doing all they can to prevent the many forms of abuse of their search engines, but this is clearly to me an abuse that ICANN is responsible for preventing.
Monique on Aug 9 2006, 01:03pm Reply
32.7 million number probably comes from ICANN on the number of domains under 5 days old, however this would also include new registrations and people who accidentally let their domain expire. This number has a lot of false positives; however that disgrunylement would go away soon.. it might be reasonable for a client browser to filter out any domains under 5 days old.
Local Business (http://esold.com) on Jul 29 2006, 02:55am Reply
Erica on Jul 20 2006, 03:36pm Reply
Rick on Jul 10 2006, 05:33pm Reply
I would rather find other things to do with my time personally. There are so many legit ways to make money....why do it?
Julie on Jul 3 2006, 09:42pm Reply
Now, it would have to be a group effort becuase if the kiter sees a lot of hits coming from one IP they would simply block that IP. It would be best to enlist other computers on the net and have them emulate clicks, controlled by a main system to keep track of just how many hits they receive.
Of course the Kiter would make money the first week, but after that they would have a pretty useless domain on their hands and would have spend $6.00 for it. Assuming that 90+% of the domains they register makes them little or no money.
Of course this all relies on the Kiter not dropping a domain that makes money, but I guess they could just start dropping all of them every week and that would kill the idea of the robot program.
Also what is the amount it would take for a kiter to want to hold a domain? $.50, $1.00, $2.00, etc.
People, It's the same theory as mailing back the pre-paid junk mail envelopes you receive it the mail. Or keeping telemarketers on the phone as long as possable. The kiters would run out of funds at some point and have a lot of useless domains on their hand.
Ok, I gave you the idea. It's up to you to run with it, i'm too busy just trying to make a living.
clickster on Jun 23 2006, 06:33pm Reply
Ideally you could couple this with a "waiting system" of people waiting to own the domain when it is released.
Fishnu (http://www.poshram.com) on Jun 23 2006, 04:12am Reply
thanks, matt
matthew (http://www.domain-kiting.com) on Jun 22 2006, 10:31am Reply
domain-kiting dot com and isasoftware dot com are now being kited. These domains were listed in comments here as being part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Beware.
Jeff Dickey on Dec 29 2007, 07:54am Reply
Thanks to Mr Parsons for all he does to make things fair for all of us. The fact that he posts our comments, website links etc is just an example of the good that GoDaddy and Bob does to help the future of the internet.
Beth Ann Johnson (http://DomainKiting.com) on Jun 22 2006, 09:36pm Reply
Deepak (http://www.MegaLeecher.Net) on Jun 21 2006, 08:01pm Reply
Great to see someone concerned about the domain industry!
In Australia we have tighter regulations which prevent registrars kiting.
The best solution I can see if the registrar has kited a domain more than once then the domain should be blocked from that registrar for registration.
It really ant-competitive behavour by registrars participating in kiting.
Myles Agnew (http://www.mylesagnew.com) on Jun 21 2006, 05:35pm Reply
The five day rule is to allow for correction of errors. OK, so limit the number of errors that a registrar can get a refund for to 2% of its total registrations for the month. PROBLEM SOLVED!
Next, each registrar is only allowed to get a refund for an individual name, once every year. (This prevents the next logical step of groups of registrars passing the name from one to the other.)
Last step, after the domain registration is returned / canceled hold the domain in a publicly announced suspended state for a random period of time between 24 and 72 hours. Thereby letting everyone compete on the second registration.
Thomas Taylor (http://TotalWebConcepts.com/dmainc.php) on Jun 20 2006, 07:01pm Reply
When a page is indexed by a search engine, an extensive algorithm is executed when additing its content to the index server. It wouldn't be difficult to calculate one or more statistics which indicated the probability of the page being part of a "kiting" syndicate.
Some example indicators which would be trivial to calculate could include:
- The number of pages under the domain (usually very low for a kited domain as the syndicate is only concerned with you clicking on the domain's main link, i.e. the domain name)
- The presence and number of adverts on the page possibly expressed as a ratio to the amount of normal content (kited domains would have a very high "advert to content" ratio).
- Reports from users and watchdog organisations.
- Domain record information (use of a-priori knowledge).
- Other heuristics.
These indicators could then be used by the search engine to order search results by relevance (sites with a high probability of "kiting" could be demoted) or, alternatively, the kiting probability of the domain could be displayed with the link, allowing the user to decide whether the result is worth clicking on.
Another alternative would be to build this functionality into a browser plugin which calculated the kiting statistics of your search results in the background. All very straightforward. Any investors interested in funding a project like that?
Thanks for an informative article.
Andi (http://www.clyral.com) on Jun 20 2006, 11:54am Reply
and I have to say that you, Mr.Parsons and your
tenacity alone are reasons enough to continue to
do business with GoDaddy.Com.
Thank You for not letting go of these disreputable businesses,
for outstanding customer service and for not raising your
prices and resting on your laurels once GoDaddy blew up!
This is an abuse of power !
Stop Kiting!
JGens (http://Impish.Net) on Jun 20 2006, 09:08am Reply
Stop Domain Abuse!
Marty on Jun 20 2006, 08:24am Reply
d mac (http://www.1800meter.com) on Jun 19 2006, 10:06pm Reply
kthor (http://www.theforeclosuresinfo.com) on Jun 19 2006, 09:36pm Reply
So, I go to http://www.domaindoorman.com, which claims to be a icann accredited registrar and what do I find? There's no way to register a domain with them, no prices, nothing but a form for personal information which only a fool would fill out without any other info.
Please use your domain superpowers to send domaindoorman back into the dark void they escaped from.
Thanks,
Pete
Pete Horseman on Jun 19 2006, 08:35pm Reply
set up a petition to the appropriate organizations/persons,
well written, which could be signed here online.
Any needed restrictions, such as ID or else, would apply.
Then when you have a bunch of signed supporters, you and we will win.
Arthur Sherman (http://www.cpt.co.il/) on Jun 18 2006, 12:33pm Reply
You know who in-q-tel is Bob
directnic monitors by IP - the have all sorts of porn sites that are you for psychological profiling. It's very extensive they then connect people and families etc...
On a side note can you please remove the g00ns again, they've been causing my all sorts of problems and ruining my online fun.
I'm sure glad that GoDaddy is upfront and would never do anything like what directnic does.
Right Bob?
have a day
jo maxx
fred on Jun 18 2006, 09:12am Reply
Hey thank's for working for the little guy.If you get a chance in your busy schedule please check out my site www.hempschool.com A work in progress!If you have any ideas please email me. A loyal customer. Dell
dell (http://www.hempschool.com) on Jun 17 2006, 05:22pm Reply
Neal Collier (http://www.flomatonantiqueauction.com) on Jun 17 2006, 11:57am Reply
-Mike Beckwith
http://mikebeckwith.net
Mike Beckwith (http://mikebeckwith.net) on Jun 16 2006, 09:10pm Reply
I found that domains of potential value may never go to auction at Pool.com. Instead they are kited in a new way.
The registrar in this case is Namescout. They put up a fake "partner" registrar at Abdomination.ca, a graphic-for-graphic copy of the Namescout site. Abdomination.com was registered as of last night to Pool.com
Abdomination.CA then became the registrar of record for kiting domains, two of which I know of that never came to auction.
Put plainly, it is using a kited domain to kite other domains while cherry picking from dropping urls by using the customer base of Pool.com to determine which domains are valuable.
If caught, Namescout has a nonexistent "affiliate" registrar to blame.
In case anyone is confused by the food chain, Pool.com is a sales branch of NameScoutcom, and Abdomination.Ca was registered to Pool.com
I complained to Pool, and reported them to RECOL.ca and Fraud.org, both of which have juristiction in Canada.
Apparently, they used my email address to look at my acccount and saw what urls I was speaking about (I refused to tell them). As of today, Abdominations.CA not only came down, but is now available for purchase. The only way this could have happened is if Namescout dumped the url to cover their tracks.
As of the time of writing, my correspondence is supposedly in Pool's legal department, I suspect more to deny or find ways to silence me than to correct their behavior. I am expecting the legalistic denial. I will post it as available.
Does anyone have anything to add to this, or have there been similar instances?
John (http://toads.biz) on Jun 16 2006, 09:57am Reply
Bryan Knight (http://hypnosis.org) on Jun 16 2006, 08:15am Reply
Mark S. on Sep 14 2006, 08:45am Reply
ryssa on Jun 15 2006, 07:08pm Reply
John H on Jun 15 2006, 04:38pm Reply
Who is paying? IS someone willing to pay someone else for the bit of infpormation that I happen to land on their website?
B A N (http://na) on Jun 14 2006, 07:14pm Reply
Sprinko (www.sprinko.com) (http://www.sprinko.com) on Sep 4 2006, 06:53pm Reply
1. Registrars make money from the deposit, and the short amount of interest in the deposit.
2. Domain owners make money from advertising clicks.
3. Advertising companies make money from the clicks.
4. Advertisers make money from increased customer exposure.
Everybody makes money in this situation. There's nothing wrong with it. I say more power to this system.
Jason Fortuny on Jun 14 2006, 12:25pm Reply
Since you are on the inside, what is the chain of communication when someone applies for a new domain name?
Some months ago I put in a request with one of my hosting services— 1and1.com— and paid for 5 new domain names that were available at the time according to whois.net queries.
I paid for the domain names and got back verification that the URLs were in process but were available to be registered in my name.
I was stunned to discover the next day that while 1and1.com was going through the motions that the unusual URL name I had "registered" was already in the whois.net database as having been registered within 6 hours of my own registration. My application and payment had preceded the new owner's by over 6 hours but this company had intercepted my registration and jumped on it themselves. (It was in the travel and tour industry).
1and1.com apologized and said they were "looking into changing" things about their registration service.
I have read NOTHING about this before except that I had learned from earlier experiences NOT to QUERY WHOIS.net about a name I was seriously interested in unless I was ready to REGISTER IT IMMEDIATELY. Because those queries had been intercepted.
But, I had not experienced having a registration "stolen" from me when I thought I was dealing with a "private channel" registration provider like 1and1.com.
Can you give us an insider's view of how a person's registration can actually be intercepted and registered out from under them? Who is seeing this process? Presumably it is automated. What is go.daddy doing that is different or protects people from such registration interceptions and usurption?
David on Jun 14 2006, 09:17am Reply
Marcel van der Vliet (http://eazyworks.com) on Nov 13 2006, 08:14pm Reply
I also feel that this is unfair and/or bogus because you would feel that whois registers should be protected and encripted in order to ensure that things such as this don't happen. The domain name is now being kited, I wonder what the chance of me being able to backorder it will be seeing how I've already seen it go through two seperate companies... It's now stuck with wangleedomains, another what I would assume domain kiter that has an inside knowledge (or can read minds), on what other domains people are looking for.
JB (http://www.ubloop.com) on Aug 4 2006, 03:03pm Reply
Seriously Dr. Twomey and ICANN are about worthless and personally I wouldn't be surprised if they were in on the profits being made by this scheme.
When there are blatant abuses like this maybe a lawsuit against ICANN and it's officers should be in order to wake them up? Did you hear (read) that good Dr?
RCM on Jun 13 2006, 05:30pm Reply
i keep seeing legit sites get trumped over and over again by keyword/doorway sites, even though these types of sites violate google's rules.
the web is getting to be an unsafe place to surf for the unskilled surfer. i think we'll see more "trusted" portals coming to popularity in the coming years - places you can't get redirected or accidentally download spyware.
the government is worried about porn, but these doorway sites are much worse. when was the last time a porn site spread a virus? they are much more interested in making money.
thanks for the info Bob.
ryan (http://www.masteryan.com) on Jun 13 2006, 05:28pm Reply
I am surprised you haven't said anything here about our recent loss of network neutrality.
What do you think - are your for, against, or neutral?
eli garcia (http://discoverfire.com) on Jun 13 2006, 12:44pm Reply
I am absolutely for net neutrality. However there are others fighting that battle. I have my hands full with domain kiting.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on Jun 22 2006, 11:28am Reply
If you check the fastest growing registrars in webhosting.info you'll b able to see most of the registrars involved in domain kitting.
it's all 100% legal, they use domains and then release them after 5-7 days or so and then get them back. It's like using a dress and them returning it to the shop.
And it's very lucrative.
Mike (http://www.findinforums.com) on Jun 13 2006, 06:39am Reply
Phil Rion on Jun 12 2006, 06:58pm Reply
For instance, I register a name. Dump it. This is logged.
I do it again. Logged. Third time, I am no longer able to register. How hard is that? You don't need a governing body to do that do you?
Doug on Jun 12 2006, 12:24pm Reply
lone rangeistrer on Jun 12 2006, 11:25am Reply
Give 'em Hell, Bob!
Ever think about running for President?
lary priestman (http://yarlq.com) on Jun 12 2006, 08:57am Reply
We have started using the age of the domain in our spam filtration. Over 1.5 million domains in May were "temp" domains from spammers. That is crazy. They send out millions of spams to the site, and then tear it down at the end of the 5 days.
Jason Short (http://www.emeraldspamshield.com) on Jun 11 2006, 09:45pm Reply
One particular person has done this to my friend's domain name and he is using her reputation for saving animals to make himself money. We need to stop him and others like him!
Julia (http://www.craftelady.com) on Jun 11 2006, 11:40am Reply
I've seen this happening myself, and wonder why it is allowed. I noticed this happening around a year or so ago. I don't understand why ICANN won't step in. They are taking advantage of the registries that are allowing the registrars valid deletes if they accidentally correct the wrong names. What can the registry do? Take the grace period away? No. So what can we do to battle this? If ICANN won't do anything about it, we need to do something ourselves to bring this to a hault. But what how can we convince ICANN to outlaw this practice? Also, clever naming on the term, Bob.
Steve.
Steve Anonymous on Jun 11 2006, 08:47am Reply
Thanks for this post... damn can't beleive with all the backtalk on fair world trade practices and human rights issues from the USA Government, that the senators and others in charge of this issue can sit back and let corruption like this to exist (I understand ICANN is basically USA fully controlled when say this!! Sends out a message to the world that if it is USA based then is fine to rip everyone off - almost like ICANN are just a bunch of mafair bosses helping these guys generate free cash for blocking fair world trade.
Agree with the comments of others - they should bring in a system - if a name is registered and not paid (penalty of US$1) and if repeatedly registered and never paid by same party then automatic payment is taken x 3 times normal cost - no refund.
Is there not a standard petition letter we can be sending to senators and ICANN in bulk on this so they can see there are a lot of angry net users out there - perhaps even a check box link on your own site that, when people add / renew or change a name an auto letter to them all in power to change this goes out petitioning a change - possible?
Thanks again - this has to stop or how can ICANN or the USA expect support on any fair trade issues world-wide!!!
Shocked, annoyed and extreamly sad the USA Government allows this thug type behavor to exist!
andrew on Jun 11 2006, 12:39am Reply
In addition to the malicious practise, i also found a new (?) scheme regarding the .eu TLD. Since a few days, Eurid started to release .EU names that were pre-registered during the sunrise period, but were not granted to people. Eurid was so "helpful" as to add the release date to the whois entry.
Now what happens is that certain .eu accredited registrars seem to have received a list of the domains and their release date, and registered those names almost the second their were release (after 11am on release date). This applies mostly to those registrars who were also doing "business" in the scheme that was discussed by another entry on this blog (hijjacking the .eu TLD). I had a list of names i wanted, including my own surname (there are not many people with my surname), and they were all gone. Why would some registrar (or in the case of my surname, the cofounder of a registrar) want my surname???
This practise of scamming needs to be stopped. Sooner rather than later.
Jeroen Wierda on Jun 10 2006, 08:24pm Reply
When I was about to buy it from godaddy it said it had already been taken. So I did a whois and saw it had been purchased by Compana, Inc. (another domain name registrar), that same day.
So I did some research on them and found out that they monitor domain registry querries and selectively buy domain names that have some significance and relevence in search engine keyword rankings. This of course is an automated process.
My question is how is it possible for a business such as Compana, Inc. able to monitor what domain names are being querried?
And, Do you have to be a registrar to do that?
Is there any link to a website that can explain this?
Ray Solomon (http://www.ray-solomon.com) on Jun 9 2006, 10:27pm Reply
Costco does this - they have 90 days (roughly) between ordering an item and paying for it. If they can sell the item in 10 days from purchase, they have 80 days (90-10) of interest on the money they will send to the vendor to pay for the item.
What they (Costco) is doing is legal, and fairly clever. Considering the cash flow, they are smart to do so, make a profit, and still provide a good set of product at a good price.
However, the registrars that the kiters are using are unethical at best, and aiding and abetting at worst.
Kick them in the ass, Bob, whenever possible. Good for you.
(I would say "You go, Girl", but I fear you might just kick ME in the ass :^)
bandit on Jun 9 2006, 04:18pm Reply
As always, you continue to serve the millions of Internet users by issuing this formal challenge to the organization(s) that are willing to permit such clearly unethical behaviors to occur.
Maintaining the integrity of a domain name is serious stuff and ICANN fluffing it off to the side under the flag of "business is business; everyone is allowed to make as much profit as they can generate" can not be permitted to continue. I have always viewed many of the deceitful acts occuring on the internet (including spam) to be a clear case of false advertising, but if that doesn't apply here (as I think it should) has anyone considered the "Next Day Dress Return" practice in which a person purchases an expensive item (such as a piece of clothing or jewelry), wears it to the event they purchased it for and then returning it the next day? Doesn't this example provide a proper parallel to argue all members of the Internet community are not permitted to "try on" the same web site address repeatedly? You buy an address and have 5 days to take ownership of such an address for a test drive. If after 5 days, you don't like the site, sure...return it. But doing it 5, 10 or 20 times?
I am no legal eagle but maybe my example might lead to someone having another idea on how to shape Internet policy?
Once again, kudos to you and every single member of your organization for your excellence in both customer care...and community caring! YOU GUYS ROCK!
Warmest wishes,
Valerie A.
Valerie Anderson (http://www.illusions101.com) on Jun 9 2006, 01:47pm Reply
Are the folks "upstairs" getting some kick-backs to keep allowing what should be illegal??
Sick and tired on Jun 8 2006, 08:20am Reply
Perhaps a new blog set up as a petitiion would help. This blog should be based on the idea of listing financial losses as a result of registrars not their customers. There are laws, but you have to know how to manipulate them to help them protect you. For my plan to work, this would be the first step. Afterall, any legal issue addressed in Congress has got to either be class action or in the millions.
I will look for repnses. We are the tip of the iceberg. Now you and I have to make this iceberg sink the Titanic (domain kiting acheme).
John D. on Jun 8 2006, 05:00am Reply
Of course they are a Canadian company so should not have been able to buy EU domains.
Instead the established a shelf company and used a fake reistrar name and somebody elses telephone number.
Joey on Jun 7 2006, 11:01pm Reply
I wanted to thank you for the article on "Domain Kiting". I have never heard of any such practice. I thought every name I had come up with was taken. This made me believe that I was too late for every name that I had chosen. But now I realize why they were all taken.
I believe the reason VERISIGN and ICANN are turning their heads is because they are putting large profits in their pockets from these types of practices. Let us know if there is something the little guys like us can do to help put a stop to this form of robbery.
Concerned entrepreneur
Sharon Juhasz
Sharon Juhasz on Jun 7 2006, 10:05pm Reply
This is when companies suck up lucrative domain names, for the sole purpose of selling them at a HUMONGOUS profit. This happened to a popular domain that had a site that I used to visit; the owner didn't renew his site, and within days, someone else bought the name. For giggles, I checked their site (http://www.sedoparking.com), and the result was simply "Make offer"; with 1,200 unique viewers to this particular site per month - three years after closing - I expect the price to be substantial, considering the lower ones I saw were in the hundreds (courts.com = $675,000).
Considering the price to register a legitimate domain name, I consider this to be dirty marketing at some of it's worst. If I were to want a domain name for whatever reason - be it hobby or small business - that was parked, I'd likely have to spend so much money it wouldn't be worthy it; I'd be better off sticking to Angelfire.
Christopher Bowen (http://www.superbusnet.com) on Jun 7 2006, 02:49pm Reply
C Ashman on Jun 5 2006, 06:44pm Reply
richard s turner on Jun 5 2006, 05:21pm Reply
It is a strong attribute to point out this abuse. I thought the 5 day lookback was designed for consumers who change their mind or indended to register a different name i.e. google.com instead of poodle.com.
glenn
glenn mc on Jun 5 2006, 01:11pm Reply
It doesn't give anything back to the web at all. I have very useful opensource site ideas that I am limited with because the domain names I need to generate money for my programming time or eaten up by what you have talked about in the article, domain kiting.
Glad someone cares about it, thanks for pointing that out.
Ben Taylor (http://mcatquiz.com) on Jun 4 2006, 10:56pm Reply
There really should be something put in place that prevents people from tying up domain names in this way, for this reason. It's the same old story, isn't it? Get-rich-quick people use money to make money without adding any value to society, while at the same time making things harder for everybody else. It's like people who write viruses or hire others to do so, and then sell anti-virus software. Some people really believe this is what capitalism and free market economics is and should be all about, i.e. anything goes to play the money game. sigh That's really too bad. Thanks, Bob, for the information.
Jim on Jun 4 2006, 06:44pm Reply
Once again, you have hit the nail on the head. The domain name industry needs more honest and intelligent people like you.
Please keep on exposing these important situations so we can know what is going on.
Thanks.
Chaplain Estes (http://bridgetofaith.com) on Jun 4 2006, 09:15am Reply
There is no room for kiting or for compromise in any way on our global internet and its integrity must be preserved and all are responsible to assure that no one compromises our highway of communications just as numerous activists called for integrity in reshaping and rebuilding Boston which all are proud of today. Stop this revenue seeking solution which compromises the future of a vehicle which has become so integral to our daily communications.
Christopher Tingus (http://bigdiglifevest.com) on Jun 4 2006, 06:07am Reply
Lords Syndicate (http://www.mainlineisp.net) on Jun 3 2006, 08:39pm Reply
The only explanation is that the people in charge of the decision have a vested interest in the status quo.
Chuck on Jun 3 2006, 07:42pm Reply
MTH
Mario Haubert (http://www.borabora.com) on Jun 3 2006, 05:40pm Reply
Barbara Fischer (http://www.jmcutlery.com) on Jun 3 2006, 01:36pm Reply
Ram Jagessar on Jun 3 2006, 08:36am Reply
As to ICANN earning money off this practice, that's ridiculous. If kiting was removed, then the domains would have to be purchased. Mathematically they make more money with the sale than with the deposit. A $600K deposit is equal to 100,000 domains. I realize not all 32million would be registered, but I'm sure more than 100,000 per registrar would be. Furthermore, they would probably be bought by people who actually put them to use, at least putting relevant ads on the page, or of course putting up full websites.
The situation is so egregious that the reason it's allowed to stand is obvious: the people making the rules are in some way participating in the scheme. (Al Copone supported prohibition.) So the real solution is to remove those people in charge. Use this issue as the rallying cry to remove the people running ICANN. It's funny how people can find their moral compass when their job is being threatened. Are they elected? Maybe they should be. Appointed? By whom? Everyone has to answer to someone. Maybe they should be subjected to congressional review like cabinet posts or judges.
Nothing like shaking a smelly fish under their nose to make them let go of the cookie.
anon (http://none) on Jun 3 2006, 04:51am Reply
I am very confident that ICANN will do something about it if they get enough letters from enough important people. The letter from the Public Interest Registry is a good start.
The fact that ICANN is turning their backs to this whole thing is quite shocking. It's definitely fodder for your average conspiracy-theorist, to wit: "Hey man, I bet you the top brass at ICANN are doing the kiting themselves just for the extra money on the side. Who watches the watchers?"
The best solution I can think of is to make domain name registrations NON-REFUNDABLE, period. It seems a little draconian, but then ask yourself, "Does the U.S. Patent Office allow refunds for an inventor that would like to withdraw or void his newly patented device?" Maybe they do, I'll have to research that, but my intuition would say "no" to that question.
Anyway, best of luck with all this. Tonight was the first time I've heard of such a concept as domain-kiting. This unstoppable juggernaut we call the Internet gives birth daily to new concepts and ideas that only exist because the Internet exists.
Tyson on Jun 3 2006, 03:20am Reply
The fact that ICANN is turning their backs to this whole thing is quite shocking. It's definitely fodder for your average conspiracy-theorist, to wit: "Hey man, I bet you the top brass at ICANN are doing the kiting themselves just for the extra money on the side. Who watches the watchers?"
Take it from someone that has been participating in the general assembly, the dnso, and now the gnso, it is not shocking at all that ICANN isn't doing anything about something that matters to indicidual users and small businesses. It is their normal mode of doing things, or not doing things as the case is here.
The guy that sold business.com is now in the domain name monetizing business and has investors with deep pockets. They are big players. I don't know if they are kiting but I would bet that some companies with deep posckets are behind most of it.
Chris McElroy AKA NameCritic (http://icann.thingsthatjustpissmeoff.com) on Jun 7 2006, 11:12pm Reply
Make money any which way you can as long as someone else isn't smarter and making more than you - is that it?
Good luck to them, and to you if you can find a way to do it. That's what we're all taught now isn't it? if it makes money it's OK and go for it.
Now what about the kids in the mud hut watching their mother die of AIDS because the multi-national-global-corporation-whatnot won't license their drugs for the cheap generic producers?
Now that is what I call a REAL low-life scum-sucking SCAM which REALLY HURTS people!!
R. Alexander on Jun 2 2006, 06:03pm Reply
MATTHEW on Jun 18 2006, 01:45pm Reply
You pay for it and you own it for atleast one year.
Patrick (http://www.patrickonair.com) on Jun 2 2006, 03:09am Reply
James G. (http://www.basskicker.com) on Jun 1 2006, 07:07pm Reply
If this practice is legal why not start kiting domains on behalf of godaddy customers? Just have a this domain is for sale on there and let the first person who wants to buy it pay the $8.95 or whatever it is.
Richard (http://www.usmlmleads.com) on Jun 1 2006, 02:28pm Reply
Because that would be wrong.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on Jun 7 2006, 12:55pm Reply
Thanks for the heads up, Bob. We'll quote you within our episode about all the black hats out there in the WWW, still a wild, wild, web!
http://smallbusinessschool.org/webapp/sbs/800/803/homepage.j sp
Bruce Camber (http://smallbusinessschool.org/) on Jun 1 2006, 11:17am Reply
Thank you very much for the insightful articles.
I'm very sorry this is off topic but I didn't know how else to direct your attention to HUGE problem in a semi-public setting.
The "Cope Act" (Communications Opportunity, Promotion and Enhancement Act of 2006) is going to kill the net as we know it and all the domain talk will be mute point. IMHO
Please everyone Google this subject and act accordingly especially you Sir, Mr. Parsons.
The net community needs to make our voice heard!!!!
Once again Sir, I apologize for the hijacking of your blog.
Thanks
Edward,
Nolaimports.com/ Proudly hosted on godaddy!!!!!
Edward (http://www.nolaimports.com) on Jun 1 2006, 03:59am Reply
This topic reminds me of the time I was bored out of my mind at work and I just surfed porn for 12 hours. Thank god for internet porn.
Your Friend,
Bobb Cobb
Bobb Cobb on May 31 2006, 06:20pm Reply
If they only hold it four of every five days, that's roughly $153,600,000.00 for a (30 days) daily balance.
If I could make one half of one percent of that in interest, I'd be begging people to kite domains via my registry. Absolutely begging. No wnder VeriSign has nothing to say...
jdp (http://reliablyhosted.com/) on Jun 11 2006, 01:21am Reply
As the abuse admin for a smallish ISP, I've often wondered about the dead links in spam emails when I haven't cleaned out the spamtraps for a week or more.
Bobby A. on May 31 2006, 03:31pm Reply
Is the 5 day refund something registrars have to offer by law, or is it just standard for the industry?
How about changing the terms, in a way that would be visible for those registering domains manually, but would be missed by an automated kiting engine. For example a change from 5 days to 4.
Suddenly the kiters would have spent their deposit.
Do they re-registrer at the same registrar, or do they cycle through different registrars to avoid detection of this fraud?
Since it is in the registrar's own best interest to get rid of the kiters, the registrar should be able to refuse their business.
Or each registrar could take unilateral action by holding on to canceled domain for some period of time. After all, what can the kiters do: complain? It would be interesting to hear the customer service call when the scammer complains that the gig is up.
Also, is it not free enterprise? Doesn't that also mean that a registrar should be able to refuse to do business with a known kiter. Is that what godaddy is doing? You state that godaddy is not involved in this, which I preume to mean that you don't allow kiting by your customers, or does it mean that godaddy itself doesn't kite?
Bjorn on May 31 2006, 02:38pm Reply
Of course, both of these options also harm legitimate registrars as well, but if they tie it to the percentage of domains refunded, then those that are legitimate would not be subject to the restrictions. And, the refund delay could be passed on to the customer in that it could be a policy where legitimate registrars also delay the refund for a cancellation if they even offer the option. I do not recall ever seeing where I could cancel a registration, but then I never had a need to cancel one.
Just a thought on how to solve.
Steven
Steven (http://www.hilcoent.com) on May 31 2006, 11:09am Reply
Anthony on May 31 2006, 10:17am Reply
j on May 31 2006, 09:05am Reply
But there's an even more lucrative method to this 'domain kiting' scheme that some registrars are using... that of providing these domains to spammers, and charging the spammers for their usage.
Watch the domains that Alex Polyakov (the world's largest spammer, according to Spamhaus.org) is using. You'll see them 'lose' their name servers and stop functioning... coincidentally enough, on a regular basis of approximately 4 days. Then, just when the anti-spammers think the domains are dead... they're back in operation.
So, this whole 'domain kiting' scheme is not only immoral and dishonest... it's being used in support of organized criminal enterprise.
SpamSlayer on May 31 2006, 12:27am Reply
It's in Google's (et al) best interest to identify these rapidly re-registered domains and simply omit them from their databases (32+ million sites to omit is a nice bit of housecleaning). The better the results, the more likely the customer will keep using that search engine.
Bob would know best that there must be a way to mine WHOIS for recent registrations and track these offenders. If the domain kiters, now actively hidden from the vehicles that get them traffic, would have to find some other way to abuse the Internet to make money.
Psyclops on May 30 2006, 09:39pm Reply
Chris Hart on Jun 16 2006, 07:17pm Reply
Cheers!
-Oliver
Oliver (http://www.globalclientservices.com) on Jun 12 2006, 12:34pm Reply
The solution is to simply not have a return policy. It's $6. Buyer beware. Not a big deal unless you are buying an enormous amount of domains. If you are, then you just better make damn sure you are buying the right ones.
Bob is mad because this takes away his business because people can't register the domains they want to because these kiters have them all. And he's right to be so.
dumbfounder (http://www.dumbfind.com) on Jun 11 2006, 04:19pm Reply
Richart B. Whitte on May 30 2006, 04:48pm Reply
larry whited (http://fixaudio.com) on May 30 2006, 12:07pm Reply
The most obvious solution is to charge a small, U$ 1 for instance, fine for these cancellations such that the fine outgrows the potential profit.
Nobody can generate traffic in 5 days anyway, so the fine would solve it.
Thanks for the heads up.
Jose Fonseca on May 30 2006, 11:18am Reply
Thanks so much for spearheading this effort! One of the most frustrating things about being in the online business
is constantly running into registered domain names that have nothing more than search engine links -domain names that I would have otherwise used legitimately.
Keep up the fight!
Mark
Mark on May 29 2006, 04:20pm Reply
It's all about the money!!!
And they don't care about anything else nor do they have the slightest shred of integrity. Nothing but slugs.
JD Wiggs (http://www.jdwiggs.us) on May 28 2006, 08:15pm Reply
SHawn on May 28 2006, 06:58pm Reply
Rob-e (http://www.bigbike,biz) on May 28 2006, 06:52pm Reply
Roupen M on May 28 2006, 02:39pm Reply
markus (http://www.derzornigemarkus.de) on May 28 2006, 01:27pm Reply
Something must be done!
Don
Donald R Houdek on May 27 2006, 06:41pm Reply
Alex (http://boltonsearchengineoptimisation.blogspot.com) on May 27 2006, 06:02am Reply
Joyce (http://niteynight.com) on May 27 2006, 03:00am Reply
I never heard the term "domain kiting" before this article. I am on the internet a lot and see many marketed pages with useless content that only is there to make money with affiliate links or adsense. I see some come and go. New pages are always popping up that look similar to other ones. I believe there needs to be an ICANN policy to prevent domain name abuse. I am tired of hearing about unethical pratices for monetary gain.
Oh Bob, give us a good and happy article. It gets tiring hearing all about bad stuff in the news. So how was your weekend?
Ray Solomon (http://www.ray-solomon.com) on May 26 2006, 08:56pm Reply
I usually have a pretty good weekend.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on Jun 7 2006, 12:44pm Reply
If you could, you should indicate in GoDaddy's domain name search results, whether a domain name is currently being "Kited". If it is, then you could offer the searcher an option of buying your domain name backordering service for it, on the spot.
If I were looking for a domain name and found one that I liked, but that was currently involved in a kiting scheme, I'd certainly purchase backordering for it, in hopes that I'd eventually be able to get it.
Additionally, your backordering service could try to synch up on the kiter's pattern of releasing and then re-registering the name in order to improve the odds that you could snag it for me.
Just a thought.
Phillip H. Blanton (http://www.radwarrior.com) on May 26 2006, 05:52pm Reply
I have personally written to ICANN about this, and even though it is illegal to use WHOIS information for commercial puposes, ICANN doesn't care that companies are doing this.
Patrick (http://imeducate.com) on May 26 2006, 11:59am Reply
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2005/d2005-0 681.html
I'm not at all familiar with the power the WIPO wields nor with the extent to which its findings are binding upon the parties involved in arbitrations, but it's good to see that truth and justice sometimes prevail (this is not the first time I've seen rulings against so-called internet business men who's motives are clearly in "bad faith"
It is inevitable, I would hope, that businesses and individuals who behave in this manner will (sooner or later) realize that they're paying more money to the attorneys who must defend them than they're earning through their pathetic little squatting and/or kiting schemes.
With regard to the lack of attention ICANN has demonstrated relative to this issue, this seems to be consistent with a disturbing trend I've observed over the last few years - the people who are supposed to represent the interests of the many (politicians, for example) seem more interested in doing what is easy than doing what is right.
Michael McConnell on May 26 2006, 11:54am Reply
I was wondering if the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) or the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) would have any jurisdiction in this matter.
Vivian Aldana (http://www.addonincome.com) on May 26 2006, 07:54am Reply
Kevtherev (http://www.forumsau.com) on May 26 2006, 05:39am Reply
David on May 25 2006, 06:36pm Reply
Mike on May 25 2006, 07:02am Reply
How many times have you conducted a search and the first five or ten sites were simply search engine crap? It used to be rare — now, you can pretty much guarantee that any search will include domain kiters in the top positions.
More important than fairness is the fact that this is stifling legitimate commerce via the Internet. Names which could be purchased and developed are tied up. The fact is that probably 90% of the problems (kiting, spam, phishing) are caused by less than 500 people worldwide.
This isn't brain surgery.
Frankly, I fault our lawmakers. Where are the laws that make forging a header mail fraud and carrying a five year sentence? Why isn't domain kiting considered theft of service? Why isn't creating and releasing a virus a felony?
Put a law into effect and allow a legitimate registrar (such as GoDaddy) to sue the top four or five offenders for loss of revenue from intentionally tying up domains they could be legitimately selling.
But that would require ICANN to cooperate.
Shelly on May 24 2006, 03:59pm Reply
I forgot to mention ...
I've always worried about these pages which offer you the facility to check the availability of a domain name as it seems like the ideal opportunity to have a website which auto-registers every domain which is asked for and then makes that person pay through the nose for the domain.
Or maybe I'm just being too devious!
Nick
Nick on May 24 2006, 02:50pm Reply
Suzi (www.lovepeaceandtarot.com) (http://www.lovepeaceandtarot.com) on Jun 6 2006, 06:39pm Reply
Interesting. I'd never heard of striping.
On checking DirectNIC's website I noticed an advert proudly stating that they have genuine (whatever that means) SSL certificates for $70 - "lowest cost in the industry".
I'm rather confused as you have SSL certificates for $20 (or less).
Surely their advert should be reported to the relevant advertising standards body as its blatantly untrue.
Nick
Nick on May 24 2006, 02:46pm Reply
Geoffrey Ludt (http://www.ludt.com) on May 24 2006, 02:34pm Reply
It's NOT the same as paying for them. That's the point, they NEVER pay for them!
Thanks Bob for bringing this issue to the forefront
BTW I am a proud WWD Reseller and the kiters will never get my 100s of personally owned domains! Hah!
Russell Hallonquist on Jun 20 2006, 08:48pm Reply
This process is harmful to us, the consumers, who are prevented from legally grabbing any of these domains and putting up websites of relevance, and this process I am sure is detrimental to the domain registry's accounting department, especially if they are operating under accrual based accounting.
Essentially, you are correct, it is not much different than just purchasing the domains, so why don't they do so instead of playing this game and causing everyone else problems.
Josh (http://www.hivoltagedesigns.com) on Jun 5 2006, 10:13pm Reply
The difference is that a normal domain name owner has to spend more than 6$ EVERY YEAR.
While in the Domain Kitting scheme they can use the Domain name without time limit for 6$ that they´ll recover at will.
Best Regards
Francisco
Francisco Gonzalez Velasco (http://sapienssapiens.com) on Jun 3 2006, 01:09pm Reply
6-6 = $0 paid for registration.
Craig on Jun 1 2006, 12:00pm Reply
I had no idea this practice was going on and probably explains why I can never get the domain name I want, but there's always so "parked" page there.
I have a question about the Add/Drop. If the registar cancels before the 5 day grace and the name is dropped, can I get the name by paying the extra $18 to have it backordered? Or does the Registar still have the right to go in and Renew the name without it every hitting the market for even 1 day? If I can backorder a name I truly want, then I wouldn't mind so much. Please advise.
Thanks Your Loyal Customer,
Jeff
J. R. on May 24 2006, 01:44pm Reply
Never click on ads on their page.
Sanjay on May 24 2006, 01:38pm Reply
Donnetta (http://www.donnetta.com) on May 24 2006, 07:57am Reply
http://www.forbes.com/technology/2006/05/23/internet-reit- domain_cx_rr_0523cyber.html#
Chris McElroy AKA NameCritic (http://icann.thingsthatjustpissmeoff.com) on May 23 2006, 07:24pm Reply
Scott (http://www.AllThatYouWish.com) on May 23 2006, 05:28pm Reply
Karen (http://www.GymnasticsStuff.com) on May 23 2006, 02:28pm Reply
the internet community owes you one. I never knew such things happened. And I think a lot of people didn't. You must have opened the eyes of millions with this article and the attention you gave it in Life Online. You are so right, this has to be stopped and be made illegal. This scheme is so annoying. Everyone has seen one of these pages with "search engine links". But who ever clicks it ? Not me, that's for sure, the first thing I do when I see such a screen is close it. I really hope the people at ICANN wake up and start acting against this. May I recommend them to reduce the grace period to 4 days and announce it on the day that this starts ? That will teach the cowards behind these schemes a lesson by taking a lot of their money 1 day earlier then they expect. But since that sounds too good to be true and will never happen, they will have to at least stop working with registrars that seem to be connected in any way with this scheme.
Keep on pressing this issue at ICANN Bob, you will do us all a favor.
Best regards,
John
John (http://the-insiderz.com) on May 23 2006, 12:16pm Reply
Pablo (http://www.peu.net) on May 23 2006, 11:11am Reply
Why has a Press Release not been issued, Bob?
http://www.prweb.com
I just called the local clearchannel news channel to report this scheme, and they seemed very interested.
I also called CNN, and was promised that they would "forward the information", which gives me very little confidence that effort will be made. I am concerned it will go to a nontechnical intermediary who will dismiss it offhand.
Okay, fine.
CNN can be contacted by phone at (404) 827-2600, or by email at cnn.com/feedback if anyone wants to follow up with me.
We need to get the news to do more than "forward the information".
John Bottomley (http://www.maui.us) on May 23 2006, 10:41am Reply
Domain Kiting makes the internet a worse place. I'm sure I've run into these useless sites, with the page full of ads and no information.
Thanks for working hard to add value to the internet.
Financial Reflections (http://www.financialreflections.com) on May 23 2006, 10:12am Reply
Sorry if I don't shed a tear here. This place isn't any different than any other site that is crafted to make it just difficult enough to make you jump around to get what you paid for and hopefully get you to buy something else along the way. HEY IN FACT I CAN THINK OF 7 DOMAIN NAMES YOU CAN HAVE. They are the ones in the low rent ghetto section of the auction. Which isn't really smart since some of those names in the ghetto would earn a larger percentage for GoDaddy than some of the stupid names you see on more costly (A) list that don't sell.
I predict this business has about a year or two left before its business model and carnival barker ways crushes it. I doubt however that those at the top will be left holding any bags.
Of course I don't expect this response to even make it to the public. Comments will be subject to moderation (censorship) before being displayed. Now that's a surprise. Not. I'm not going to list my domain names like these cheesey people who used their comments as a free ad.
Boo Hoo BOB. Here's a quarter.
EdDaddy (http://Yahoo) on May 22 2006, 10:41pm Reply
I can see how "domain kiting" hurts businesses like GoDaddy. That's about it.
I would hope don't censor this comment.
corey on Jun 4 2006, 05:52pm Reply
Does kiting hurt GoDaddy? Sure, and every other registrar out there. But it also hurts every webmaster, businesses who can't get decent names, and Internet users by filling up the search engines with worthless sites.
There is no sin in making money. Providing products for society to consume is a worthwhile and beneficial endeavor.
Maybe you should try it.
Shelly on Jun 7 2006, 04:52pm Reply
I have written to ICANN and hope other people will do so as well.
Nadeem (http://www.azam.biz/eu-domain-names-fraud/) on May 22 2006, 07:22pm Reply
Joan Wenzel (http://www.naturalcandlescents.com) on May 22 2006, 03:27pm Reply
What specifically about the practice should be banned? Is it the continuous renewing of the domain name or the fact that it is done even one time?
As far as a one-time practice, it sounds like a free market at work. Domain parking exists (GoDaddy itself parks other peoples sites which were registered with godaddy, and earns revenue on them in the same manner - without sharing that revenue at all with the rightful owner of the domain... until you decide to do something with your domain).
The Domain Kiting practice (at least the first registration) seems to be a very efficient way to find cash flow positive names. Why pay for it if it does not generate income? I agree to continuously repeat the process, and thus keep the domain off the market, does not intuitively seem right. But the rest can be automated, so what's the differnce between returning one domain and returning 100,000?
Bob, I think you should revist GoDaddy's practice of not sharing revenue with (or turnign it ALL over to) your customers who own their domains, that you profit from, before you get too critical and call the kettle black.
R.J. Lewis
http://www.BuyHealthDomains.com
R.J. Lewis (http://www.BuyHealthDomains.com) on May 22 2006, 02:55pm Reply
Linda on May 22 2006, 08:44am Reply
Sam Guzman (http://samguzman.com) on May 21 2006, 08:28pm Reply
PL (http://milleniawebworks.com) on May 28 2006, 04:54pm Reply
If there is money to be made then there would be a reason.
I think Icann will continue to look the other way until international law changes the practice. What Icann and others don't realize that when an entity doesn't regulate it's self the government will try and step in and do it for you.
( and we all love that right? )
This is why the internet is slowly becoming the wild wild mess. When not to long ago it was the New Wild Wild West.
Time to saddle up and put the horses in the barn and wait out the storm, Don't be surprised if we all end up riding the asphalt hi-way. Where fields and Streams once laid.
DR
DC Computer Network on May 28 2006, 08:07am Reply
Thank you very much for the insightful article. Now I have a complete and full understanding as to why I have trouble getting domain names! I can't tell you how many hours my clients and I have wasted trying to get domain names due to 'domain kiting'. Thanks for keeping us (the little guys) informed on what is happening in the industry.
Bill
Bill (http://www.thechambersclan.com) on May 21 2006, 08:20pm Reply
Douglas Wiessel (http://syslucas.com) on May 21 2006, 04:48pm Reply
thanks again for illuminating slugs in the system.
i will transfer my existing directnic domains to your company. presently i have 57 domains with your company and 10 with directnic.
you're a stand-up fella.
georgie
georgie (http://www.potleafbikii.com) on May 22 2006, 11:01am Reply
Solares should be in jail, not in charge of registrars.
DC on May 21 2006, 10:39am Reply
Concerning the problem as a whole, is there an active effoort to outlaw domain kiting?
Whats the best action to take to stop this nonsense?
A limit to the number of times and individual or entity can register a particular domain in a year?! (...as preposterous as that sounds...)
Kurt on May 21 2006, 07:31am Reply
So far I have been very impressed.
Jonathon (http://www.jsjsoftware.com) on May 20 2006, 06:20pm Reply
Michael (http://www.solasproductions.com/) on May 20 2006, 04:48pm Reply
I wanted to say, great article! I'm usually a little at odds with some of the things you say in your articles, but I have to say that this one is well said.
I completely agree that these registrars are abusing the five-day refund period because it was not intended for that purpose. Thank you for pointing out that the correct plan of action involves getting those in control to put obstacles in place to discourage "domain kiting". Thank you also for not making the plan of action to pass legislation against the domain kiters or something like unto it. They may be "abusing" the system, but they are in their rights.
Adam Jeppson (http://blog.jeppys.com) on May 20 2006, 12:33pm Reply
Foremost, I can honestly say that your response to issues as they pertain to your Support Personnel and network operations is very impressive. You not only respond, you respond cordiate and ready to resolve an issue. This I have experienced twice in the past year - and that says a lot.
The latest support issues that I initially posted a comment on here has in part, been resolved, and much to my satisfaction.
Our server is a small cog in the big wheel of GD accounts - that I'm sure of. And I am rarely pulled into the loop of support issues for the sites and FTP accounts we host on it.
The latest issue dealing with SMTP activity is a very interesting one - as I was able to flesh out with Kyle Barnes in your Support Department. I will escalate this to our Product Support Services division at MSFT and review it - as I suspect it has to do with a latest string of updates from MSFT. These do not address specific OS updates as much as Outlook (or Office SP1 quite possibly) updates. The update turned off all email accounts where the setting was 'My SMTP Server Requires Authentication'. I was dumb-founded when I discovered this.
I am humbled by the response from your personnel, and I sincerely apologize if at any time any of my personal tickets or postings were seemingly beligerent or out of line (which I try very hard NOT to let happen). Again, with my schedule, I RARELY get involved with the support of this dedicated server. It's there primarily for our MCS personnel to do modeling on - yet it does host a half dozen significant accounts (which help pay for the server).
My hat is off to you, Mr. Parsons. I will work more diligently to personally address any/all support issues on the account - and I look forward to doing more business with you.
No, this post is not applicable to your blog - but I suspect it will find its way to you - and I just wanted to say 'thank you'.
Sincerely,
M. Hamilton
Lansing, MI.
Michael Hamilton (http://www.thedataworks.net) on May 20 2006, 11:35am Reply
Patrick Sanders on May 20 2006, 11:02am Reply
Yesterday after posting, I browsed through some of the other products available to GoDaddy customers and came across your Webstock photos. As I usually do, I typed in webstockphotos.com into my browser to see what it would turn up and ended up on pages that I can only presume are what you've described...a page filled with links, but nothing about Webstock photos. I thought it interesting that others may just be capitalizing off your traffic with the practice you denounce here.
I love GoDaddy...and love the charicature of you Bob! I gotta know if it was one of your kids that said "Go Daddy" and GoDaddy.com was born.
I suppose there's little impetus to curtail kiting....as long as the money keeps coming in and no one gets hurt. ;As I see it, it only affects a relative few. Until it hurts more people, there won't be a change.
In response to your article about ideas Bob....if you've got those millions of domains you've sold, a directory of GoDaddy customers/websites would be cool. That could lead to a GoDaddy search engine. "Type in a few words and then click GO-DADDY!" Don't forget to send me a royalty check when you get it operational!
Here's to you Bob!
Cheers!
Stephen on May 20 2006, 08:31am Reply
Exactly! That's the point. From a business, economic, financial position that domain would be far more productive if the product or service offered on it was in some way related to what the domain name describes. Instead, you get a page of advertisements.
If you are looking for a domain name don't see if it's available by typing it into you browser. The "kiters" will see that as a hit and will keep renewing the domain. Instead, go to Go Daddy's site and enter it there.
How many times have you anted to register a domain only to see ads parked there?
James
http://www.maximumadvocacy.com
James (http://www.maximadvocacy.com) on May 23 2006, 07:21am Reply
I be willing to deposit $1000 and play 5 day domain name games might find a good name in the process that way there be more compitition for the names now if we had 1000 pepole doing the same wont work as well for them will it
Jot (http://www.jot.cc) on May 20 2006, 04:28am Reply
now since there is overusage of it...they have to change this 5 day period..cause Bob is correct : re-registering it every 5 days keeps dn on a holder for ever without paying for it .....not refunding the .25 cents fee will DROP this huge overusage ...just a simple action to limit this problem
Now, noone can proove it BUT the only logical explanation of ICANN's upsent would be the hidden $$$$$ they take from some big dn inverstors ..............
Nic on May 20 2006, 04:21am Reply
But "domain squatting" is equally offensive and has been going on for much longer.
WHY SHOULD ANYONE BE LEGALLY ABLE TO SELL A DOMAIN NAME FOR MORE THAN THEY PAID??
Ticket scalping is illegal...why is domain scalping allowed? The "spirit" of a domain is that you buy it and USE it for its intended purpose...a virtual active space for information...NOT cattle on auction. (Hell, I never even understood why a .ORG could legally be registered by any entity other than an offically non-profit ORGanization. I mean what was the point in having 3 different original public domains if there were no enforced parameters for each? The GOV and EDU domains certainly seemed to be regulated somehow. I didn't/don't see anyone registering NakedPartyGirls.gov!)
I imagine the problem is that the internet was birthed by intelligent, ethical people who simply expected everyone else to participate in a logical way...respectful of the intended structure.
So my question, Bob, is... if we still haven't righted the simple historic wrongs of a domain system that was founded on a noble but horribly naive "honor" system, what chance do we have in reversing the current compounding rape of the system by typical opportunist pigs?
(If you've addressed "squatting/scalping" before please post the article link)
Thank you for a great service!
Zachary Knight
Zachary Knight (http://www.ZacharyKnight.com) on May 19 2006, 05:23pm Reply
Zack -
Then why should anyone be legally able to sell real estate for more than what they paid??
Simple, capitalize on the open market. With domain names 10 years ago most where not trademarked and name investors knew this. If one was register a trademarked name on any ext. then that practice is infringement. You see names where like the Oklahoma land rush way back in the mid. 1800's. Just open for a claim.
I have had 5 digtit offers presented to me with names I was not even trying to sell.
Brian (http://www.trucking.ws) on May 28 2006, 10:22am Reply
Thats called free enterprise. There are companies who grab 1-800 telephone numbers and resell them.
Some people speculate on land they will never use but expect to sell for a profit.
Nothing wrong or illegal about buying and selling domain names.
The article about kiting though is a real problem. If you are going to speculate you have to pay to register the names. What he is talking about is like writing a bad check or floating a check. Much different.
Chris McElroy AKA NameCritic
Chris McElroy (http://thingsthatjustpissmeoff.blogspot.com) on May 21 2006, 08:58pm Reply
Some BS piece of $##! registrar named SPOT DOMAIN LLC (domainsite.com) was able to register it BEFORE the GoDaddy BackOrder could do it. Now it's going to go through the 5 day cycle forever. Will GoDaddy's back order ever beat it to the punch? I sincerely hope so.
This practice makes me LIVID. A one time 5 day purchase and refund would make sense... but an INDEFINITE WAY to continually re-register the name forever, every 5 days??!!! This is absurd. It's a shame lawmakers cannot stop this kind of thing, yet they'll push for net neutrality BS.
Someone is going to eventually take the law into their own hands.
Carlos Saenz (http://enola.net) on May 19 2006, 03:29pm Reply
Actually, until I became a GoDaddy Customer I never really knew about domain back-ordering and its benefits. It would seem that names.com also is in the habbit of what I call "Domain Name Stalking" by delibertally stalking the domain name whois registars with random potiential domain name searchs of just any domains that could be a potiential good use for just anyone. These emom, and tucows registars have a habbit of grabbing these potiential domains like the guy who stalked for domain name " myabc.com " as he is from Grand Rapids, Michigan Area as I am — he knew that the local ABC affilate tv station WOTV 4 wotv4.com would like to have that domain. He knew that I had checked on its avaliability and wanted it for the friends I have at that local network station. He owns it and has it parked on a parked page. He is not using it. When I was an emom customer I had it in my shopping cart and was going to buy it. It was grabbed out from under me. Be aware of domain name stalkers who buy domains and put them on a for sale page parked and want litterally thousands of dollars for them. This guy wants over $10,000 for this domain. I am not paying that much for a domain.
Devin (http://www.widenationhost.com/) on May 21 2006, 09:22am Reply
The real relevant question is: Who's the model that you use on your homepage and the emails you send to me?????
Stephen on May 19 2006, 12:20pm Reply
The model on Go Daddy's home page and various emails is our very own Rachel Storm. But bad news my friend, Rachel is happily married and a mother of a wonderful young daughter.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on May 20 2006, 03:26am Reply
I just read your post about " kiting ". You are correct. This practice is even worse than you mention. You were too mild in your remarks about ICAN. Perhaps there is more money "changing hands" in this situation than we know about. How many millions of dollars are the "kiters" stealing (perhaps I should be more politically correct and say "kiters are making" - but I still consider it stealing).
Seems to me that if Dr. Twomey won't do anything about it, it is time to get whatever government agency that has the power to do something to do something. Surely ICAN cannot be immune to all legislation passed by congress.
Has anyone thought of a lobby to present the case for control over this area?
Bob, please use you position of influence to start petitioning legislators to introduce a bill to control this.
This practice hurts many thousands and only and benefits relatively few. I for one would be willing to donate to a fund to start a petition drive.
Milt Paul
mpaul@cableone.net
www.pwr-hosting.com
Milt Paul (http://www.pwr-hosting.com) on Jun 4 2006, 01:56pm Reply
As for the problem i had with your company I will try and discuss this issue with you so that maybe YOU can fix your problem. I transferred my domain name from Register.com in jan to godaddy and then got my website up with alamode, inc for real estate. I was up and running and the transfer from godady was complete but my original domain name expired in March on the 11th and when i transferred it to you you guys dropped the ball and did not actually reregister me. Then some guy bought it unbekknownst to me that it had expired because you managed to send only an automated e-mail to my defunct e-mail according to your records. I had to start all of my marketing over again because the guy who bought it was a scammer too and wanted $4800 for it. Obviously I just got a new domain name. Your assistant of your office told me your company never had the transfer complete which is not true. It had been and Register.com said they had released it and when I did the dns.. thing to alamode it was from go daddy. Your company took no responsibility for your screw up. That is a HUGE problem YOU need to fix. I was out tons of time, money and the overwhelming feeling of not knowing what happened and how to fix it caused me to break down and ask my daughter for help. You need to sort this out.
Sincerely,
Bobette Stanbridge
Bobette Stanbridge on May 27 2006, 07:28am Reply
The problem here is that most kiters are registrars.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on Jun 7 2006, 12:46pm Reply
Nate Andrews (http://nateandrews.com) on May 24 2006, 05:52pm Reply
Loved your article-very informative and a real eye-opener. It's unfortunate that the people behind the domain industry are although highly educated are also big time sell-outs to the almighty dollar (or euro). Maybe a cataclysmic event such as a "near collapse" of the domain market is the only way these executive "whores" will do some action.
Is the same thing about to happen to the .eu domains? I tried registering 40 names and almost all of them were rejected. The only ones that were left are hanging by a very thin thread. Do you expect this extension to flourish in the near future? It is taking forever to even register even the most obscure.eu name. Based on your artice, I am inclined to think that the .eu system is already inherently corruted and he authorities have failed to learn from the mistakes of of their predecessors. Best of luck to you and your wondeful company.
Peace,
Rene
Rene Rances (http://walledstreet.com) on May 19 2006, 09:14am Reply
e.s. brezina (http://www.roccanet.com) on May 19 2006, 07:53am Reply
Rolf Larson on May 19 2006, 03:45am Reply
dvr on May 19 2006, 01:03am Reply
dvr on May 19 2006, 12:57am Reply
I've been involved in the Internet since its inception. I am just a small business person who makes 100% of his income in legitimate Internet Business, managing customers and hundreds of small websites across the Internet. As a small business person I constantly look for new ways to increase my income and survivability in my business. I consistantly have to compete against unethical, unscrupulous lying thieves stealing money from innocent and naive people. I compete by being honest, running an ethical and fair business and more importantly, always being there for my customers.
Domain Kiting is unethical. It obviously abuses the system by playing up a loophole. I am sick of hearing about it just as I am sick of unethical people that have no moral values. I would like to thank Bob Parsons for standing up and taking a position on this and for being there for us, the common person. I dread the day that GoDaddy sells to the one that pays the right price, or Bob retires or whatever for I know then GoDaddy will never be the same. I only hope I am out of the game when that happens.
ICANN is NOT the Internet. VERISIGN is NOT the Internet. The Internet is a system of and about the collectiveness of people. YOU are the Internet. I am the Internet.
The only way OUR voice will be heard is for us to collectively scream at the top of our lungs from the highest hill. The Internet was and is about collective togetherness.
Therefore, I have put together a way for us to collect ourselves together into one big, fat pile of names. I will take that big. fat pile of names and use it to holler loud upon the highest hill I can find. This is the way to be heard. I was recently involved in a battle here where I live to save my lake which I reside 50 feet from in a nice house. Those that wanted to ruin its beauty with an environmental fiasco secretly collected together a group to do this. It was almost a done deal but then I and a few others found out and we went around and collected names of those that did not want this here. No one would listen to us. But then we had collected 1000 names of residents along the lake. Now everyone listens to us and the "done deal" is now dying on the vine. The power of our voice is in numbers and always has been.
Should you choose to make your voice heard, walk with me at http://www.spiritsign.net/stop_kiting and leave your name that collectively perhaps we can yell more loudly. This is the only way we will get something done, by creating a tidal wave, a veritable flood of names hollering against this practice. Thank you.
Thomas (http://www.spiritsign.net/stop_kiting) on May 18 2006, 11:19pm Reply
Which stated: "I'm a cautious non-risk taking entrepreneur wanna-be. Would like to someday soon register a domain name and have been disturbed about the kiting article. That sort of thing might make it hard for me to be creative with my name choice."
PS Thanks Bob for the enlightening of this first time reader of your blog.
Anonymous on May 20 2006, 01:17pm Reply
Thomas- Concerned Netizen that wants to raise 100,000 signatures to turn in to those idiots in control.
Hmm.. reminds me of an old acronym we used to use back in the old days in chat..TABATIIC, anyone remember that one??
("Throws a beer at those idiots in control"
Thomas Wright (http://www.spiritsign.net/stop_kiting) on May 22 2006, 12:34am Reply
Anonymous on May 18 2006, 06:14am Reply
Nice article, but not sure whether anyone will do anything to fix this issue. I wronte to ICANN after seeing your prev.post, and I got a reply saying they cannot address that issue. Weird.
I personaly witnessed this kiting recently. I saw one domain name expiring soon. I thought I can register once it is expired after seeing that it was on pending delete status.
1.Just at the day of deletion, it was grabbed by X (one leading registrar) [See I am so scared to type the registrar's name
2. After 5 days the same domain name is shown different owner with a new whois record info.
3. After 5 days the whois record shows a new registrar.
All these times, the parked page goes to different ad sites and also for few days the domain was on for bid. And the page says it will negotiate with the original owner
Sure this is a big scam. I am not sure ICANN does really care or not. Because of this good domain names are permanently stolen and those who want to register for legitmitate purpose lose the chance.
How we can bring this menace to an end?
Thanks for your articles.
Stan
Stan on May 17 2006, 10:32pm Reply
Is there anything that we can do at our level, other than just not support companies that use these practices?
Chuck Crawford
<a href="http://www.affiliatewebdesign.com">Affiliate Website Design Forum</a>
Chuck Crawford (http://affiliatewebsitedesign.com/forum/) on May 17 2006, 06:23pm Reply
I guess only people in your position are the kind of people who can make something about it.
As a satisfied godaddy customer, Im behind you man (as I think many others will be).
Regards,
Miguel
e-Miguel (http://www.e-miguel.com) on May 17 2006, 05:39pm Reply
I agree that this is a very distasteful practice, on par with the Verisign Sitefinder initiative... and i have a question:
How would someone go and grab a doman tied up in a domain kiting scheme?
Robert (http://www.dissman.us) on May 17 2006, 04:43pm Reply
Quadrille (http://www.seo2seo.com/) on May 17 2006, 04:38pm Reply
John (http://www.royalholidayclubbed.com) on May 17 2006, 04:37pm Reply
Tracking down what there was, the domain leaded to a 'parked page' with ads from two different companies: Google AdSense and Oingo, pop unders from Casalmedia and search boxes provided by AppliedSemantics.
Though I could 'recover' the domain after waiting and hoping they might drop it, I saved the source code of that page and sent it to the companies I mentioned in the upper paragraph. It was clear that it represented a mutual violation of codes of conduct (Google's, at least), and they might be able to track the customer's account through the ad links.
I still haven't had a reply (neither human nor automated) about this issue from any company, so I don't know if they also are into this and get any profit.
Marcos (http://www.cybmark.com) on May 28 2006, 01:04am Reply
mandeep on May 17 2006, 02:04pm Reply
A similar principle applies when there is no money to be made. ICANN's lack of a profit margin means that there is no motivation to support customer satisfaction as is a common problem with any non-profit corporation. This issue is only further extended by the fact that ICANN is the single source for the popular and profitable registrations. There is neither immediate nor long-term need to satisfy anyone.
The final issue is the lack of legal regulation online, which is viewable by two perspectives.
1) Lack of internet regulation creates a generally free marketplace that is not governed by the same restrictions that brick and mortar corporations face. This allows individuals the ability to easily create a thriving business.
2) Lack of internet regulation creates a breeding ground for those who would take advantage of unethical methods of doing business.
It comes down to the fact that if someone is not making money then there is usually no motivation stop unethical issues. ICANN will not help because they do not see benefit in doing so. The government will not step in because they see no benefit in doing so (they do not tax internet transactions uniformly). Being creatures that act solely on personal benefit (Immanuel Kant), I cannot see light at the end of this tunnel yet.
Dustin on May 17 2006, 10:52am Reply
RentNet.Org supports GoDaddy in Domain name responsibility.
John (http://rentnet.org) on May 17 2006, 08:47am Reply
~R
Richard, the renegade banker (http://www.renegadebanker.com) on May 17 2006, 07:43am Reply
.eu registrations and the "landgrabbing" by speculators. If professionals online now can't get good domain names how are China and Russia going to respond as their online communities grow? It might seem ludicrous now, but we could end up with a Chinese worldwideweb and Russian worldwideweb. They have the resources and the programmers to go it alone (or maybe they'll just join the club and become the world's best kiters!)
Martin Luxton (http://www.martinrockscrikey.com) on May 16 2006, 02:21pm Reply
Regards
RagMag.org
Cremlin (http://RagMag.org) on May 19 2006, 09:20am Reply
Rian Visser (http://www.dlldrive.com) on May 16 2006, 01:45pm Reply
Take a name that is about to be released soon, such as my complex and usual name (demoulinskaya) owned by a deceased uncle. Who the hell would be interested in that domain name?
Can we agree that my defunct uncle was not about to renew this name? He made the mistake of taking the password with him in his grave when he died ... too bad!
.
So, I interrogated the system many times when it was about to be released and guess what happened when it should have been released... The grace period last six months instead of one.
Suddenly, someone else had bought it and was offering $10K to sell it to me.
Can we suspect that someone was trapping the requests and make statistics about domain names "asked" on the ICANN system to purchase them and resell those frequently asked?
Who the hell would be interested in a complex and unusual name except me?
I only made the mistake of asking each day about its release.
IF SOMEONE FILTERS AND FILES OUR REQUESTS TO RESELL THEM AT A MUCH HIGHER PRICE, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE SYSTEM IS NOT HONEST?
How can you explain that the domain name was released a few months later?
Since then, I changed my mind and am not interested anymore.
desmoulins on May 16 2006, 08:28am Reply
becker on May 16 2006, 08:13am Reply
ICANN does absolutely nothing unless it is forced to do so. The big question here then is — who will force ICANN to act?
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on May 17 2006, 09:41pm Reply
I think Google, Yahoo and the major search engines are the only powers that can make it know longer worth doing, as you said the "Cash Register" will quit ringing.
This is ALL ABOUT search isn't it Bob? Some people steal a pen at work others rob banks....thats what is happening here it seems?
Robert Wallinban (http://DomainKiting.com) on May 17 2006, 09:55pm Reply
There's no doubt about it, it's search engine links that makes domain kiting work — but it goes way beyond that. There's nothing wrong with putting search engine links on a web page. The problem here is allowing a loop hole so that kiters can use domain names and not pay for them — that's the problem. Twomey and the gang at ICANN that can't seem to shoot straight should be able to clean this up in an evening. Why they won't is mystifying.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on May 20 2006, 03:15am Reply
Thanks Mr Parsons.
BB on May 16 2006, 06:03am Reply
David Carroll on May 16 2006, 04:28am Reply
Kenyatech is not affiliated in any way with Go Daddy. To the best of our knowledge there is no way that they can see domain names that are searched for on Go Daddy.com or any other registrar. The only way that this could be the case would be if VeriSign would be providing them with this information and I seriously hope that that is not the case.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on May 17 2006, 09:40pm Reply
Chris (http://www.3characterdomain.com) on May 16 2006, 03:18am Reply
All you have to do is to drop an email to google adsense which is the primary money-provider for the kiting companies. Complain to them about those companies and give examples to their ad sites.
Also remind google their latest visit to court about the click-fraud where they had to pay 90 mil $.
https://www.google.com/support/adsense/bin/answer.py?answer=18 386
b. My own expirience is with OREGONNAMES which is a kiting company which grab sites in the scheme bob described
http://oregonnames.com/
c. As mentioned before to get the real dimensions of the problem give a visit to
http://www.dailychanges.com
d. To Godaddy - i I enjoy your services, but please update your names DB more often so the backordering service will actually give reults.
Thanks!
Debby
Debra Michilas on May 16 2006, 01:41am Reply
I don't know if you're still responding to posts this far down (#50), but I have a question for you...
Is the amount of time between every 5 day period (the point where the kiters "drop" the name and then re register it) instantaneous, or is it long enough that someone who had backordered it on GoDaddy or Pool or who had a powerful enough setup to try and grab their own "drops" could register it out from under them?
If you do respond to this - thanks!
(thanks anyway for the article!)
George
George (http://www.heygeek.com) on May 15 2006, 07:19pm Reply
It would at least make more work for the kiting and as a result could make it less cost effective?
DK on May 19 2006, 08:08am Reply
There's no doubt about it, that change would certainly knock a lot of the profitability out of the process. However I think there are better ways to fix the problem.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on May 20 2006, 03:22am Reply
Alan MacLeese (http://none) on May 22 2006, 03:29pm Reply
It's always possible to snag a name or two away from a kiter. The problem is that kiters often use groups of registrars to get their domains kind of like wolf packs so they are very successful in getting the domain names they cancel back.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on May 17 2006, 09:35pm Reply
More information can be found here:
http://www.rootfest.net/squatters.html
DirectNIC stinks (http://www.rootfest.net/squatters.html) on May 15 2006, 03:16pm Reply
I've had that experience with whois and kenyatech. A couple of weeks ago, I checked out a bunch of domains via the linux whois command, and rechecked the free ones a few days later, and all of them were registered to kenyatech.
A week after that, they were all free again.
qwijibo on May 15 2006, 08:31pm Reply
I agree that "kiting" is an extremely dishonest practice, but, i'm sure your development team is more than capable of tracking the organizations that are doing this. Why not eliminate the ability for someone to re-purchase a "returned" domain name for a certain period of time. Department stores have been practicing this sort of thing for ages. How is a domain name purchase much more different than that?
Erich Kolb (http://www.erichkolb.com) on May 15 2006, 03:00pm Reply
I have absolutely no ability to prevent domain kiting. That's something that only ICANN and/or the government, or possibly the registry can do.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on May 15 2006, 07:01pm Reply
Good work! Jim ali the cybergoat
Jim on May 17 2006, 01:25pm Reply
Mark on May 16 2006, 11:37am Reply
Some of the biggest domainers doing this are in Korea and Russia. So the US can't regulate it. ICANN can make an attempt but won't if it isn't in the best interest or the special interest groups that pull their strings.
Chris McElroy (http://www.blogs.pn) on May 21 2006, 09:02pm Reply
JD Wiggs (http://www.jdwiggs.us) on May 28 2006, 08:34pm Reply
Already feeling somewhat 'oppressed' by our governments long reach...you are right...we do not want them pulling the strings; it would be just another thing they would screw up...
Regards,
RagMag.org
Cremlin (http://RagMag.org) on May 19 2006, 09:58am Reply
Jordi on May 15 2006, 12:12pm Reply
Regards
Tim
Tim Challenor on May 15 2006, 11:19am Reply
My mother raised me with the words, "most people are good..." an ideology that took far too long for me to realize as flawed. She meant well I'm sure, but she was also raised in the 1930's, in a quaint New England town, married right after High School to begin a life of cooking, cleaning and having babies...without much time to test her belief in human nature.
Regarding people...'good' may be a term that has developed into a very loose definition of the word; honesty and integrity seems not to enter into the equation.
Regards,
RagMag.org
Cremlin (http://RagMag,org) on May 19 2006, 10:30am Reply
Ed Hare on May 15 2006, 11:13am Reply
Chris Ohanian on May 15 2006, 09:21am Reply
Your restocking suggestion makes perfect since. Of course, the real problem is that the fox (ICANN) is in charge of the hen house.
Best regards,
Bruce M
Bruce M on May 19 2006, 07:34am Reply
Mike (http://www.yellowcomp.com) on May 15 2006, 09:02am Reply
Tov (http://phenomi.net/Blog/weblog.php) on May 15 2006, 07:25am Reply
http://www.google.com/domainpark/
Jay on May 14 2006, 08:44pm Reply
Jonathon (http://www.jsjsoftware.com) on May 20 2006, 06:21pm Reply
Kudos Bob - keep up the pressure and get this stopped.
I always wondered why those many domains that I wanted were not available for registry - now I know they are probably being, in some way, stolen from me.
John (http://www.artcolombia.com) on May 17 2006, 04:43pm Reply
Companies will sit on domains using the 5-day trick, waiting for someone who wants the domain to buy it from them.
I had a look at www.roddi.com, which has been "recently acquired" by pool.com. Their website gives me the opportunity to "backorder" it from them. And of course roddi.com is just a single page packed with search engine links.
Roddi on May 14 2006, 05:36pm Reply
That Sigmund Solares is still in charge of domain registrars is as ridiculous as having a known pedophile as a third-grade teacher. Sigmund Solares is a thief, and I urge people not to do business with him or any of his companies.
DS on May 14 2006, 01:47pm Reply
However, if someone were to start a "registry" of these out-of-sight domain names, and then some tools were brought to bear where people could go through and start clicking links on these pages like crazy, Google might take notice as there would be what amounts to a surge of click fraud. Google's actions in these matters are usually to ban the domains from using their services, both AdSense and from being listed in their search engines. And it's not a 5-day ban, but much longer. Thus, the incentive to keep re-registering these names would very quickly disappear.
If this "attack" is kept up long enough, Google would be forced to take action to eliminate these scumbags at the outset, as AdWords advertisers would protest like crazy.
Also, the "registry" that's created could be made available to AdWords advertisers for them to use in their "excluded domain" list.
david on May 14 2006, 01:02pm Reply
Abraham on May 14 2006, 12:17pm Reply
Chris McElroy (http://www.wholettheblogout.com) on May 21 2006, 09:10pm Reply
For example, if we are talking about a website called (for example) 'freemoney.com', then possibly lots of people would want it if it became available. However, names used for spamming may be called something like 'ewyqeryvbq.com' (hardly memorable, is it?). So we need to sort the wheat from the chaff and properly evaluate the real impact of 'kiting'.
I doubt if ICANN would think it worth their while pursuing the issue of obscure domain names, but protecting the right of the free marketplace and ensuring the availability of desired names is a different issue.
I agree with the comments made about ICANN. The so-called 'Ombudsman' at ICANN (last time I checked), is a former Canadian Mountie. Seems the guy gave up his horse to join a lot of horse's asses.
Having personally dealt with the gentleman in question, you would assume he knew how to deal with such people. But it appears he doesn't.
Perhaps the biggest horse's ass at ICANN is ICANN (collectively) itself. As long as this ass keeps crapping copious quantities of ill-gotten dollar bills, they are not going to plug it - are they?
Oh well, that's life. There is a lot wrong with the world we live in, and kiting is but one of the crimes that will continue to go unpunished.
Chris Holdcroft.
Chris Holdcroft (http://www.bankraid.com) on May 14 2006, 11:35am Reply
Keep up the good fight Bob!!
Doc (http://www.namiss.com) on May 17 2006, 06:39am Reply
Many of the domain names tied up by kiters are domain names people would want.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on May 15 2006, 11:04am Reply
Another good reason to revoke the 5 day refund is that plenty of scams use domains like htrvytvrvfv.org - if they have to pay for them it adds a marginal increase to the cost of scamming.
Mike
Mike Nash (http://www.tallemu.com) on May 19 2006, 10:38pm Reply
mdb on May 14 2006, 09:15am Reply
Click here: www.netcaucus.org/members/
I am printing the blog from Mr. Parsons and MAILING it to these Senators and my State Representatives and I strongly suggest you so the same. ANYTHING SENT VIA USPS IS NOW SO UNUSUAL, THAT IT WILL MERIT ACTUAL ATTENTION. Otherwise, you will receive the form letter like the one sent by Orrin Hatch and received by #10 Tyler (http://www.2dzyne.com) on May 12 2006. ICANN will wait until these hucksters acquire all domains of any value, initiate a system overhaul and take all of the credit and approbation for making the improvements protecting all of us! Hah!
JannRita on May 14 2006, 08:59am Reply
The problem we are into is the Registrars using a loophole to get basically FREE domains if even for a short amount of time. I have paid over 100,000 dollars for a good keyword domain and these guys get millions for FREE.
Cliff Domain on May 14 2006, 07:30am Reply
Of course what you do is legitimate. You actually register and pay for your domains. You are not involved in kiting.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on May 15 2006, 11:02am Reply
Gene Heu (http://www.CrazyTroll.com) on May 14 2006, 05:19am Reply
Greg Kiernan (http://everybody-knows.com) on May 14 2006, 03:54am Reply
kmS. on May 14 2006, 03:22am Reply
Vern Rasmussen (http://attackonamerica.com) on Aug 27 2006, 11:31am Reply
my responce is- find those kiters and stop them!
i am always disappointed when i try to find domain name.
i thought i was every time too late. now i understand why.
thank you for your discovery.
nissim (http://www.nesiba.com) on May 14 2006, 02:42am Reply
if the domain names "steered and grabbed" in this manner are in fact impeding legitimate business, it will be the responsibility of the controlling bodies to perform their function.
Shawn on May 13 2006, 09:51pm Reply
if the domain names "steered and grabbed" in this manner are in fact impeding legitimate business, it will be the responsibility of the controlling bodies to perform their function.
Create and give them some ammunition...
Shawn on May 13 2006, 09:48pm Reply
Amber on May 13 2006, 07:58pm Reply
Some of the pages I've seen have Google AdSense ads on them. Legit AdSense publishers complain to Google about it all the time because it's supposed to be against the AdSense terms. But every time someone clicks on one of the ads, Google makes money. So not only are the registrars making money, so is Google.
Also, there was an article recently in Business 2.0 magazine recently that detailed people who were making millions of dollars per year simply by putting up pages with ads on them and waiting for people to type in the URL and click on ads.
I guess they have figured out a way to see which domains get a good amount of traffic and they just let the others go back and get a refund.
Bert on May 13 2006, 06:43pm Reply
I have a solution for you.
I think a strong argument can be made that these "domain kiters" as you call them are actually defrauding the advertisers paying money for the clicks. Hence, it is a form of click fraud, which is illegal.
If you want to stop the practice, you should send FedEx letters to the Federal Trade Commission, the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of California (where Google, Verisign, and Yahoo are located), and the California Attorney General. Explain to them what is happening.
You might also consider filing a civil suit against those same companies, ICANN, and others involved alleging fraud, etc., and seeking damages in the billions (considering their market cap) plus injunctive relief.
Once they have to answer to Wall Street, I think those companies will do something about this.
Eric on May 13 2006, 06:14pm Reply
Thanks, Bob, for posting this interesting article.
Gytis (http://www.autonews.lt) on May 13 2006, 12:59pm Reply
I've done business with them for several years and always been happy with their service and domain control webapp. I have about fifty domains registered through them. I was impressed with their resilience during the Katrina disaster, and I would very much still like to believe better of them.
I'm willing to pay $15/yr for domain registration to a company whose business practices are above-board. (I'm not willing to pay double that to the evil cretins at Network Solutions, who can't even seem to build a simple webapp with all of their ill-gotten revenue).
I'm seriously considering moving my domains away from DirectNIC now. I don't care so much about the cost savings, but I do care about feeling like I'm contributing to the problem. It's difficult to leave a vendor after years of flawless service, but this sort of thing is very offensive to me.
I understand that this practice is perfectly legal, but it is an abuse of trust, and an abuse of power. I don't like anything about the way ICANN works, or the way the telcos want the Internet to work in the future...and I don't like manipulation of the domain registration system.
I realize my protests are futile. Certainly DirectNIC wouldn't miss my ~thousand dollars of annual revenue (including several SSL certs), but regardless, the problems with our Internet run much deeper than a few opportunistic vultures at registrars.
Jon Postel: we're very sorry we let this happen.
Ryan on May 13 2006, 11:43am Reply
There is something VERY dark about that company and that Sigmund whackjob, as well as his cronies. Very dark.
MIKE on May 17 2006, 08:52pm Reply
Paul on May 13 2006, 06:44am Reply
But I've been told that if you try and search for a domain name in whois.sc for example, those registrars will grab those domains!
P.s - Mr. Bob, I enjoy reading your posts.
Sara on May 13 2006, 12:11am Reply
What I always do is type the name directly into the browser - I do not think this would alert anyone? But nowadays it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a meaningful name htat is not being kept from me.
Keep up the good work Bob.
John (http://www.international-art-investments.com) on May 17 2006, 04:47pm Reply
Evidence of this can be found at the following sites:
www.rootfest.net/squatters.html
www.kenyatechwatch.com
I Dislike DirectNIC on May 13 2006, 12:03am Reply
MIKE on May 17 2006, 08:51pm Reply
After weeks of tracking and researching the registrars, we found out that one of the popular registrars had been moving the domain around - and I mean around the globe.
So after running a domain availability and finding out that the domain WAS available for registration, we starting following up on Bob's "ADD/DROP" blogs.
Domain kiting sets back business, but at the same time makes other names valuable - I believe.
Edwin Henderson on May 12 2006, 09:31pm Reply
Larry on May 12 2006, 06:53pm Reply
Paul on May 12 2006, 06:10pm Reply
Joseph A Nagy Jr (http://blog.joseph-a-nagy-jr.us) on May 15 2006, 06:30am Reply
You nor I could get into the Google AdSense program for a web page with NO CONTENT like the ones DirectNIC steals and puts up there. No one could but them.
MIKE on May 17 2006, 08:57pm Reply
The way it works is that they put up a web page for the kited domain name. On that web page there are many search engine links. If someone lands on the web page and clicks on one of the links — the cash register rings.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on May 13 2006, 03:29am Reply
—Pete
Pete Maughan (http://www.VirginOffers.com) on May 12 2006, 05:15pm Reply
Rick (http://www.rickpinney.com) on May 12 2006, 03:35pm Reply
Ahmad on May 12 2006, 01:44pm Reply
Luckily when it was dropped, I managed to grab it.
Why don't they just stop the 5 day refund.
Adrian (http://myspecialchild.com) on May 12 2006, 01:02pm Reply
Edwin henderson on May 12 2006, 09:34pm Reply
BTW, if you're interested, I did receive a letter back from one of my my Senators. I have posted it here for your viewing...
http://www.2dzyne.com/letter/hatchletter.jpg
Ho ld The Rod!
~TH
Tyler (http://www.2dzyne.com) on May 12 2006, 11:49am Reply
Anonymous Coward (http://none) on May 13 2006, 10:24pm Reply
Dave on May 12 2006, 11:49am Reply
Guru Dudette (http://www.Traders-Talk.com) on May 12 2006, 11:34am Reply
Andrew (http://www.domainnamewire.com) on May 13 2006, 10:18pm Reply
I think you've uncovered the "naked shorting" of the domain name game. Same concept making money off something that you don't own, have rights to, or doesn't even exist.
Take a read of this guy's website. There are a number of folks like yourself that aren't afraid to step up and say something about the games.
Why the governing institutions we have in place to do the "policing of the fleecing" can't/won't do their job is a scary thing to ponder...it makes you wonder how much graft and/or ignorance there is in these systems that are suppose to be fair playing fields.
http://www.thesanitycheck.com/GettingStarted/tabid/73/Default.as px
Just Visiting on May 12 2006, 11:18am Reply
It's really hard to say which practice I hate more, domain squatting or domain kiting. Both keep good domains out of the hands of people that might do something with them. I guess it would have to be kiting because it's so underhanded. At least with a squatter, there's a chance to obtain the domain yourself if you're willing to pay the price.
Bill Brown (http://www.bbrown.info) on May 12 2006, 10:34am Reply
Cybersquatting is registering "trademarked" company names and attempting to keep the TM holder from having it or trying to extort money from the TM holder to purchase the name or making money, profiting from the use of someone else's trademarked name.
Chris McElroy (http://kidsearchnetwork.org/) on May 21 2006, 09:23pm Reply
Michael McConnell on May 26 2006, 12:29pm Reply
Michael on May 12 2006, 09:24am Reply
It is true that with skillful keyword manipulation you can rank a page well in a shorter time but the basic delay for beginning the spider scan and the initial indexing is fairly constant.
Also, the magnitude of automated site-building traffic that these schemers must generate to just tread water must be enormous and quite expensive.
Charles Michener on May 13 2006, 06:05pm Reply
The page doesn't have to be indexed for someone to type the name of the page in their browser, land on it and click on one of the links. This is what happens the vast majority of the time. Very seldom, perhaps never are the pages involved in domain kiting indexed by the search engines.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on May 15 2006, 10:56am Reply
I very much enjoy the weekly radio show. I have a question and hope the answer is an uneqivocal NO...but here it is: Do you accept any compensation and/or consideration from the individuals and businesses you highlight on the weekly radio show? Again I hope the answer is "no." I ask because your questions for many of these individuals / businesses are very much soft ball questions (feels more like a commercial than a objective interview). For example, Netflix recently got in trouble for misleading consumers about the claim of "unlimited" rentals because if you were a high volume renter, you were unknowingly put at the back of the line for additional DVDs. Again, I enjoy your radio show but would ask that you take a more detailed look at these companies and individuals...in this way, we all can learn more.
Thanks again and keep up the good work. J
J on May 12 2006, 12:39am Reply
You are right. The answer is an absolute "NO!" We receive nothing from the guests on Life On Line.
And you're right, I don't badger them or try to put them on the spot. What I try to do is let them tell their story. Sometimes even this doesn't work, for example when I had the Golden Palace as a guest and their spokesperson thought I was setting them up for a smack when I asked them if their odds were different from those of a land based casino. But that's just Life On Line I guess. <g>
Appreciate your post,
Bob
bob parsons on May 12 2006, 08:38am Reply
Toddw (http://ToddsPC.com) on May 12 2006, 12:20am Reply
Can you help us become a part of the Domain buyers and users of the internet AGAIN! As you peace (piece) spells out we have been TRUMPED!
Remember, you are the guy that got us buying domains, now lets keep it that way.
JB
Jack Bequeck (http://DomainKiting.com) on May 11 2006, 11:49pm Reply
Of course they are. Ask Sigmund Solares why ICANN wouldnt be happy - they're in bed with each other.
mike on May 11 2006, 10:33pm Reply
I think Google should do something about it as well. I'm surprised they haven't. I find web page after page with just ad links on them, very little content.
What's up with that?
Sick of landing on those sites (http://www.i-create.web.com) on May 11 2006, 09:29pm Reply
But as you said, that is an entirely different problem.
Sick... (http://www.i-create.web.com) on May 15 2006, 10:08pm Reply
People can own domains and do what ever they like with them. Mr. Parsons issue is that they are taking advantage of a loop hole in the system to do so without paying.
scott horne (http://web-professor.net) on May 12 2006, 01:30pm Reply
Andrew (http://www.domainnamewire.com) on May 13 2006, 10:16pm Reply